>I used to refer to him as Eric Sawally (well, it was the mid-80's and it seemed clever at the time). Does anyone know what he's doing now?
>

He's... well he's you... isn't he?

>I used to refer to him as Eric Sawally (well, it was the mid-80's and it seemed clever at the time). Does anyone know what he's doing now?
>

By an astounding coincidence, he was the next-door neighbour to a mate of mine in London about 4 or 5 years ago. At that time he was still a writer doing material for either Dutch or German radio ... and, according to my friend, suffering a great deal of writer's block and anger because he'd get woken up by loud oaths and curses and temper outbursts from Mr. Saward's flat ...

I've just bought a potentially unwise amount of IN VISION back issues, and am relieved that after being fostered as a young Who scamp by DWB the Saward/JNT bilge has calmed down. The series 22 issues are particularly useful in this respect.

Btw, Andrew, any idea if the early issues will be revised. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you weren't actually around in the early days of 'Space & Time'.

Saw a radio comedy script by Eric Saward on a huge pile of unsolicited material in one producer's office - propiety forbad me to open it and have a proper look, though.

>Btw, Andrew, any idea if the early issues will be revised.

I doubt it. When CMS reissue it's generally a straight reprint (as with the Hartnell and Pertwee issues). I don't recall *any* of the "In.Vision"s being reprinted (although Justin Richards, one of the original editors, is using a lot of the interview material in BBC Worldwide's forthcoming "Doctor Who - The Scripts").

"Galaxy 4" in Sheffield tend to have as good a back catalogue as anyone if you're after specific issues. The CMS material is quite superb, and has always been at the forefront of research into the show.

>Correct me if I'm wrong, but you weren't actually around in the early days of 'Space & Time'.

Indeed not; as I recall, Jeremy Bentham invited me to start contributing material to "In.Vision" around the Season Fifteen point (certainly for "The Sun Makers"). And I've been more than happy to ever since. It was Jeremy's work which inspired me to want to undertake media research, and it's been great fun to work with him for the last 15 years or so on various projects - we first met in February 1982.

>I doubt it. When CMS reissue it's generally a straight reprint (as with the Hartnell and Pertwee issues).

I assumed those were simply remainder copies of unpopular stories, like the lion's share of the 6-part Pertwees. I saw a lot of the issues you mention in The Who Shop yesterday but the £4.50 price tag screamed "second hand" at me (issues like Myth Makers, Ark etc). Reasonable prices all told, but I do hanker for revised editions (a la Time Screen) which will improve on those issues which predate your involvement. Not to denegrate the earlier issues by saying that, but to bring them in line with current understanding of the shows, as reflected in more recent issues.

The reason I brought this up is because our mutual acquaintance Keith Armstrong had spoken to (I believe) Anthony Brown who suggested that 21 years was quite enough. I only hope that this decision changes and these invaluable research documents remain in print and brought up to the best possible consistent standard.

>(although Justin Richards, one of the original editors, is using a lot of the interview material in BBC Worldwide's forthcoming "Doctor Who - The Scripts").

I am very much looking forward to this book. Will it's format follow the DWAS Chronicles, in terms of additional notes for excised material, or will they be straight down the line transcripts/shooting scripts?

>"Galaxy 4" in Sheffield tend to have as good a back catalogue as anyone if you're after specific issues. The CMS material is quite superb, and has always been at the forefront of research into the show.

Hence my bulk buy yesterday. Now that I can afford to buy them I'm going hell for leather. Thanks for the G4 tip!

Failing all that, I'll just hang around the Tavern next week...

*takes off dark glasses, reveals himself to be Pete Stampede from The Avengers Forever/Avengers Forum*

Not being sycophantic Andrew, but I really liked your Interesting Facts piece, which I stumbled on to when doing a search for Peter Cook stuff - fascinated that Mike Reid really was a stuntman/extra in a few Who episodes, and partucularly that you stated he was also in the Avengers at about the same time. Any idea which episodes? This isn't just for watch and laugh purposes, as there's a section at The Avengers Forever on Stuntmen and Doubles, for which I've tried to identify as many faces as I can.

Just a note to the venerable Mr Pixley that you may be interested in the 'Python/Wiped' thread which can be located higher up on this here forum.

I'd also be interested in hearing why so many of the 'senior' fans (Paul Cornell, etc) seem so knowledgable on the missing stories, and vote for serials like 'The Massacre' in their top 10 lists...

>I assumed those were simply remainder copies of unpopular stories, like the lion's share of the 6-part Pertwees. I saw a lot of the issues you mention in The Who Shop yesterday but the £4.50 price tag screamed "second hand" at me (issues like Myth Makers, Ark etc).<<

£4.50 is *way* over the odds; I think I picked up a fair few of those for around £1.95 a few years ago when they were reprinted. Maybe they're getting rare. But then again, the Who Shop isn't the cheapest in pricing items that are more than a couple of years old.

>Reasonable prices all told, but I do hanker for revised editions (a la Time Screen) which will improve on those issues which predate your involvement. Not to denegrate the earlier issues by saying that, but to bring them in line with current understanding of the shows, as reflected in more recent issues.<

I don't think it'll be happening. Jeremy and I have discussed it for our respective projects before ... and we're both looking forward to completing our projects soon (next year for myself and 2003 for HJeremy) and moving on to new material.

>The reason I brought this up is because our mutual acquaintance Keith Armstrong ...<

Ages since I've seen Keith actually. Enthusiastic fella though ... even if he does have a rather bizarre sense of crediting people.

>>(although Justin Richards, one of the original editors, is using a lot of the interview material in BBC Worldwide's forthcoming "Doctor Who - The Scripts").
>
>I am very much looking forward to this book. Will it's format follow the DWAS Chronicles, in terms of additional notes for excised material, or will they be straight down the line transcripts/shooting scripts?<

The scripts presented are the full camera scripts as held by the BBC, annotated fully for notes of changes, production anecdotes, missing scenes, alternative scenes, etc. Each serial is preceded by a production history quoting correspondance between writer and script editor and regarding other aspects of production, showing how the serial developed. There is a cast and crew listing detailing extras and also a table showing day-by-day production. There are five appendices covering other "Doctor Who" material that year, the Time-Life syndication prints, the original "Return of the Cybermen" storyline, the unfinished "TV Drama" documentary series and reprints of all the Audience Research Reports.

>Thanks for the G4 tip!<

Easily one of the best shops. 10th Planet are very pleasant as well.

>Failing all that, I'll just hang around the Tavern next week...<

:( Rather you than me. I've not been for years now, but it's just *not* my sort of thing. Glad to hear it's still popular though, and it is an *excellent* place to meet up with people.

>Not being sycophantic Andrew, but I really liked your Interesting Facts piece, which I stumbled on to when doing a search for Peter Cook stuff<

WOW! I am *delighted* that somebody has finally come to that article via the Peter Cook route (and hopefully understood the gag). That first draft has, I *think*, a lot more about Cook than in the finished version because as "TSV"'s editor Paul Scoones (brilliant editor by the way) said, "We're short of space and the 'zine *is* meant to be about "Doctor Who"." :) I thought droning on irrelevantly about Peter Cook helped make the joke of what is anally retentive fandom ... but there we go. Glad you enjoyed it Pete! :)

>>... fascinated that Mike Reid really was a stuntman/extra in a few Who episodes, and partucularly that you stated he was also in the Avengers at about the same time. Any idea which episodes? This isn't just for watch and laugh purposes, as there's a section at The Avengers Forever on Stuntmen and Doubles, for which I've tried to identify as many faces as I can.<<

I've not spotted him yet, but we're taking around 1965-66. This came from a television interview he did a few years back, and I believe that he may also refer to it in his autobiography.

He's very visible in the film sequences at the end of Episode 3 of "The War Machines".

Many thanks Pete! :)

>>Just a note to the venerable Mr Pixley that you may be interested in the 'Python/Wiped' thread which can be located higher up on this here forum.<<

Mmmmm. Yes, many thanks. I had a quick look at this the other day actually. It seems to tie up with my own researches. I've been fortunate enough to come across a mass of paperwork about "Python" in a private collection from a former crew member and am still analysing much of it - but certainly many of the existing episodes are cut in comparison with their original transmissions.

By the way, anyone else seen Mr Ross' revised Python Encyclopedia yet?

>>I'd also be interested in hearing why so many of the 'senior' fans (Paul Cornell, etc) seem so knowledgable on the missing stories, and vote for serials like 'The Massacre' in their top 10 lists...<<

I don't know ... but then again I don't understand this 'senior fan' business; surely we're all just fans and love the show.

Certainly, the availability of many of the missing serials as autotapes (and/or fan video reconstructions using John Cura's telesnaps) has meants a lot more people are now able enjoy the missing stories. I know that Paul adores "The Massacre ..." immensely because I met up with him at a convention in April 1999 where Donald Tosh was appearing, and Paul was *thrilled* to meet the man who had written the final script. "The Massacre ..." is a brilliantly dramatic story which I adore, but then a lot of the other missing serials - notably "Marco Polo", "The Myth Makers", "The Smugglers" and "The Enemy of the World" - I would rate very highly for being very good entertainment hokum.

All the best!

"Donald Tosh was appearing, and Paul was *thrilled* to meet the man who had written the final script."

I thought that was John Lucarotti? Or was he merely a pseudonym all along?

I'm not very knowledgable on the backstage DW detail. I used to find DWM articles that treated the show as a TV show desperately boring. I mean, who cares about Dorka Nieradzik, at the end of the day?

>"Donald Tosh was appearing, and Paul was *thrilled* to meet the man who had written the final script."
>
>I thought that was John Lucarotti? Or was he merely a pseudonym all along?

Nope, you're quite right - John Lucarotti did the first drafts of the serial which was then rewritten by Donald Tosh in his capacity as story editor. Since he was leaving the show, Tosh was also allowed a co-credit with Lucarotti on the final episode, "Bell of Doom".

>By the way, anyone else seen Mr Ross' revised Python Encyclopedia yet?

SOTCAA offered a huge list of corrections to the first edition long before this site came into being. Ross contacted one of the Corpses for the second edition, but he declined to help on the basis that the research philosophies are poles apart, and would prefer Ross to do some first-hand research, rather like you yourself are doing with Python production notes.

Also, the Python articles which are currently off-line for revision cover a lot of this ground. I'll pass them on to you privately. They may be of interest to you. I've still got your address somewhere.:)

>But then again, the Who Shop isn't the cheapest in pricing items that are more than a couple of years old.

Or even a few months. £4.50 for DWM299 is taking the piss just a tad.

>and we're both looking forward to completing our projects soon (next year for myself and 2003 for HJeremy) and moving on to new material.

Are the Chronicles intended to go right up to 'Survival'? I can see the point that will serve, although I note that the current editions opt for telesnaps, so I wondered what picture research will go into extant shows.

>>Thanks for the G4 tip!<
>
>Easily one of the best shops. 10th Planet are very pleasant as well.

I've looked at the websites. Will follow this one up shortly.

The Script book sounds essential btw.

>:( Rather you than me. I've not been for years now, but it's just *not* my sort of thing. Glad to hear it's still popular though, and it is an *excellent* place to meet up with people.

It might trouble you to know that I look the spit and image of Gary Gillatt, even to the point of being mistaken for him *from behind* by two seperate people on my first Tavern visit. Some delightful regulars though (Tat Wood, David Miller, David Darlington) who make it all worthwhile.

>>>I'd also be interested in hearing why so many of the 'senior' fans (Paul Cornell, etc) seem so knowledgable on the missing stories, and vote for serials like 'The Massacre' in their top 10 lists...<<

Inferring that the senior fans have copies?! Nah. A little bit of determination with audio recordings (which have improved immeasurably over the years) and some related reading give you enough of an idea. My Hartnell favourites are 'The Massacre' and 'The Myth Makers', but I wouldn't claim to be either a senior fan (cough) or own thm on video.

>Or even a few months. £4.50 for DWM299 is taking the piss just a tad.

Ouch!

>Are the Chronicles intended to go right up to 'Survival'?

The intention is to do 28 volumes, one per season, one on the TV Movie and one in miscellanea. At present, I am not sure how many of these I will be working on - but the project would be in very safe hands with David Brunt who is an *excellent* editor.

>I can see the point that will serve, although I note that the current editions opt for telesnaps, so I wondered what picture research will go into extant shows.

As far as I'm aware, frame grabs from the finished shows will be used extensively.

>The Script book sounds essential btw.

I'm curious to see how it will perform - I really have no idea. Script books are such a concept from the pre-video days of the 1960s and 1970s - what is their relevance today other than for academic study of script texts? And how much of "Doctor Who" fandom is that interest? Very few I expect. I should think 50% of fandom will buy it (since most have the serials on video anyway and will see little added value - and indeed for many this sort of thing spoils the fun anyway) ... and I should think 95% of those will just put it on the shelf and use as reference as opposed to reading the scripts.

>Some delightful regulars though (Tat Wood, David Miller, David Darlington) who make it all worthwhile.

You've named three brilliant guys there! Tat is an *amazing* writer whom I have a great deal of respect for. Yeah, there's some good people there ... but it's just the noise and crowds and so on that I can't deal with.

>>>>I'd also be interested in hearing why so many of the 'senior' fans (Paul Cornell, etc) seem so knowledgable on the missing stories, and vote for serials like 'The Massacre' in their top 10 lists...<<
>
>Inferring that the senior fans have copies?! Nah. A little bit of determination with audio recordings (which have improved immeasurably over the years) and some related reading give you enough of an idea. My Hartnell favourites are 'The Massacre' and 'The Myth Makers', but I wouldn't claim to be either a senior fan (cough) or own thm on video.


I'm just intrigued by the general opinion that the missing stories are classics, and much better than those that exist. Over the years, we've had The Macra Terror, Marco Polo, Power/Evil of the Daleks and The Massacre all being held up as 'best ever' stories. I even read someone telling us we shouldn't be harsh on The Underwater Menace, as the existing part 2 just happened to be a 'weak' episode of a great story!

Admit it, you've got the missing stories in your cupboard, haven't you?

The Underwater Menace IS a classic; it's a fun runaround that doesn't take itself too seriously. Professor Zaroff is so ludicrously over the topped and hammed up, he simply lights up the screen every time he's on it, and the cliffhanger to the existing episode 3 (not 2!) "Nothink in zee vorld can stop me now!!!" Is just superb.

An yes, I am being serious.

Not a jot of irony!


(PS: I'll pay a fiver for any missing episodes that anyone hads. Five fifty at a push...)

'The Underwater Menace' is fun, and there is an argument to say that it is stronger as a whole. I love Zaroff too, and the amphibs.

I've just agreed to getting hold of all the video reconstructions of the missing episodes, built from telesnaps, clips and audio tapes. Should be an interesting experience.

At the risk of sounding like a Kraal, how do you 'reconstruct' an episode from a few dozen photos?

This simply convinces me that certain people know far more than they're letting on. And camp Dr Who is usually rubbish (eg Time and the Rani).

Don't get me wrong, I love the show, and wish I could see every episode, and watching The Gunfighters has convinced me that long=held fan beliefs aren't necessarily true.

So own up, who's got Mission to the Unknown?

>So own up, who's got Mission to the Unknown?

I had it, but I taped "I love 1994" over it on Saturday.

Andrew, any chance of a but of sneak preview info on what has been cut from the existing Python episodes? Apart from the well-known examples, obviously.

Hi
I've just watched Keeper Of Traken on UK Gold. Could someone explain the last couple of minutes to me, please? The Doctor escapes the Master's TARDIS inside the Keeper's chamber (and the Master's TARDIS disappears - though not by dematerialisation), before legging it out and suggesting that one of the other Trakenites takes over the Keepership.

Then we cut to a goodbye scene where Tremas bids them all farewell, Nyssa leaves the room and Tremas says he just wants to look at something. Tremas wanders over to a clock which wasn't there before (presumably the Master's TARDIS as he emerges from it) and gets "stuck" to the clock. The Master cackles "At last, a new body" and suddenly absorbs into Tremas and becomes The Master we know and love, before fleeing in the TARDIS clock.

All of this takes place over about a minute and a half. Considering how slow the rest of the programme (omnibus) was in setting up the Melkur/Master thing, how come this last bit is so rushed and unexplained? How did the Master escape from the Keeper's chamber? How did he "become" Tremas? Why didn't the Doctor recognise the sound of a TARDIS long before the Master revealed himself?

Or is it just a weak story?

Any clues? Cheerio

Steve

>I've just watched Keeper Of Traken on UK Gold.

I'm off to the T-shirt printing shop with that one!

>Could someone explain the last couple of minutes to me, please?

Backprint!

Sorry, I'm not one to take the piss; I've just been watching Enlightenment, after all. With Roy Evans! Don't people burst in naked space?

Anyway, there must be a dozen websites that can help you out?

>Hi
>I've just watched Keeper Of Traken on UK Gold. Could someone explain the last couple of minutes to me, please? The Doctor escapes the Master's TARDIS inside the Keeper's chamber (and the Master's TARDIS disappears - though not by dematerialisation), before legging it out and suggesting that one of the other Trakenites takes over the Keepership.
>
>Then we cut to a goodbye scene where Tremas bids them all farewell, Nyssa leaves the room and Tremas says he just wants to look at something. Tremas wanders over to a clock which wasn't there before (presumably the Master's TARDIS as he emerges from it) and gets "stuck" to the clock. The Master cackles "At last, a new body" and suddenly absorbs into Tremas and becomes The Master we know and love, before fleeing in the TARDIS clock.
>
>All of this takes place over about a minute and a half. Considering how slow the rest of the programme (omnibus) was in setting up the Melkur/Master thing, how come this last bit is so rushed and unexplained? How did the Master escape from the Keeper's chamber? How did he "become" Tremas? Why didn't the Doctor recognise the sound of a TARDIS long before the Master revealed himself?
>
>Or is it just a weak story?
>
>Any clues? Cheerio
>
>Steve
>
And can you explain why you've put the exact same post on Outpost Gallifrey? Or are you just bored?

Cheerio

>And can you explain why you've put the exact same post on Outpost Gallifrey? Or are you just bored?

Bored and desperate. I figure someone out there must know something I don't.

>>And can you explain why you've put the exact same post on Outpost Gallifrey? Or are you just bored?
>
>Bored and desperate. I figure someone out there must know something I don't.

Ha, used the wrong password!

Andrew, earlier up this thread you said:

"It seems to tie up with my own researches. I've been fortunate enough to come across a mass of paperwork about "Python" in a private collection from a former crew member and am still analysing much of it - but certainly many of the existing episodes are cut in comparison with their original transmissions"

This is very interesting indeed. please would it be possible for you to elaborate a little?