I'd agree on the whole - although I think the humour is *very* American - it's just that most British (and Aussie) people have a pretty dim view of American output.

Odd that you hate Seinfeld tho'. A lot of Friends' best moments are basically more cuddly takes on Seinfeld's nit-picky, ephemera obsessed style.

I really can't agree. It seems - and I have seen enough, as the rest of my family at home and my uni flatmates love it - that it's just Phoebe annoying the balls off me, with her kookyness, David Schwimmer's character and Rachel providing all the actual storyline, and generally not being funny, Monica being all fussy about cleaning, and the other two blokes being occasionally funny. But the rest annoys me so much as to stop me enjoying it at all.
I do, however, like Frasier very much.

Don't find programme funny.
Do find Jennifer Aniston very attractive.
Dilemma over whether or not to watch.

Admitedly I haven't seen loads and loads of Friends episodes but the ones I have seen over recent weeks I have enjoyed and laughed at. I like the kooky, offbeat feel of them.

Pheobe is a dumb, annoying, valley-girl type bimbo at first. Then you realise that she's SUPPOSED to be a dumb, annoying, valley-girl type bimbo and that's why she's funny.

I've never quite been able to work out why I don't like Seinfeld. It just doesn't make me laugh. And I get sick of them crapping on about whatever the episode's obsession is.

Fraiser I haven't seen a lot of so I don't feel I can really comment on that. But the half an episode I did see just seemed like a high-brow version of your usual a crap American sitcom.

To realise how good Seinfeld is, you have to watch at least 100 episodes, and because they're shown in the middle of the night you don't get much of a chance.

>To realise how good Seinfeld is, you have to watch at least 100 episodes, and because they're shown in the middle of the night you don't get much of a chance.

You see in Australia we get Seinfeld at 7pm or thereabouts.

Actually, I've noticed that most of the good shows and movies on British TV, ones that you'd actually want to watch, don't start until at least 10.30pm. And is generally on after midnight. This is extremely annoying as I work and don't have a video.

My problems aside, it is annoying more generally that the only things you can watch at a decent viewing hour (7-10pm) are programmes featuring Vanessa Feltz, Jamie Theakston or so bloody boring/crap that you wouldn't want to watch them anyway. I'm not saying Australian TV is much better, but at least we show goodish stuff at decent hours when people want to see it.

Still sort of on this topic what do we all think about how British comedians want to make American style sitcoms?

I got talking to Rhona Cameron and her agents in a pub a few months back and they were saying they'd been trying to do that with Rhona and they cited Seinfeld as an influence.

I think it's fairly obvious that a lot of American sitcoms are crap and that if British comedy wants to be good it shouldn't use most of them as an influence.

The other problem is that British comedy doesn't have the same infrastructure, ie. millions of dollars to spend on a show so that they can afford heaps of writers to writer heaps of episodes. British sitcoms usually have one maybe two writers who write all episodes and would be struggling with any more than six episodes a year AND no budget.

Any thoughts people?

>Any thoughts people?
Here's one:

The good British sitcoms tends to be more surreal or in any case different from the norm. from what I've seen of American sitcoms they are based on one main character (also the title of the show), and indistuingishable from one to the next.

>from what I've seen of American sitcoms they are based on one main character (also the title of the show), and indistuingishable from one to the next.

Seinfeld may be entirely based around one character, but IHMO Frasier is more of an ensemble comedy, and they are both brilliant.

At its best, 2 or 3 series ago, Friends was one of the best sitcoms on TV. The scripting was so tight, no opportunity for a character-based gag was wasted. It's lost its way a bit now, as the writers work their way through every conceivable pairing of characters. It's turned into an exercise in mathematics.

Frasier remains a joy, despite the odd predictable 'Frasier goes on a date that doesn't quite go as planned' episode. I'd recommend everyone to order the American scripts book from Amazon as it's wonderful.

The American team-writing system......tricky, this one. Very expensive. I've been told by a senior BBC producer that it's been attempted but I can't remember what show it was. Team writing is good for series that need lots of episodes a year. The standard unit of British sitcom is 6 eps a year, which is usually why it's a one or two person job. Richard Herring has acknowledged the gargantuan task he has of scripting 22 (is it?) TGPs. Maybe there's a quality/quantity trade off here (Steven and the Corpses might agree - or maybe they just despise the Landlord character) We tend to have *star* sitcom writers over here like Renwick and Clarke who plod away at their own creations. In the USA writers switch between series as their careers progress.

>>from what I've seen of American sitcoms they are based on one main character (also the title of the show), and indistuingishable from one to the next.
>
>Seinfeld may be entirely based around one character, but IHMO Frasier is more of an ensemble comedy, and they are both brilliant.

I was thinking of all those tacky ones shown at 2:00am where the star is an unknown stand-up, or washed up movie star. By the way what do people think of 3rd Rock From The Sun?

PS what does IHMO mean?

>>>from what I've seen of American sitcoms they are based on one main character (also the title of the show), and indistuingishable from one to the next.
>>
>>Seinfeld may be entirely based around one character, but IHMO Frasier is more of an ensemble comedy, and they are both brilliant.
>
>I was thinking of all those tacky ones shown at 2:00am where the star is an unknown stand-up, or washed up movie star. By the way what do people think of 3rd Rock From The Sun?

Utter rubbish.

>PS what does IHMO mean?

In my humble opinion.

Frasier is my favourite programme of all time, you know. Great, eh? It generally pisses all over anything else I've seen.

And Season 8 starts on Channel 4 on January 5th, apparently. Or perhaps not, who knows, what with E4 starting in the new year and that.

Whatever, I'm enjoying the repeats of Season 4 at the moment.

Sorry to bring it back to Friends, which I loathe, but....I've never actually seen the episode made over here.

I'd like to hang on to my blood pressure, you see.

>Sorry to bring it back to Friends, which I loathe, but....I've never actually seen the episode made over here.
>
>I'd like to hang on to my blood pressure, you see.

Speaking as a sometime defender of Friends, it's one of the worst, except Hugh Laurie who is superb (for all of 45 seconds)

>I generally hate American sitcoms, especially the popular ones that all the plebs rave about so I refused to watch Friends...until recently when my flatmate was watching it and I found myself laughing at it and enjoying it.

With the greatest respect, and without wishing to start a flame war, I think the above says more about your blinkered attitude than it does about the quality of American sitcoms.

Glad you're enjoying Friends, though. I think it's one of the best sitcoms out there.

Cheerio

>>I generally hate American sitcoms, especially the popular ones that all the plebs rave about so I refused to watch Friends...until recently when my flatmate was watching it and I found myself laughing at it and enjoying it.
>
>With the greatest respect, and without wishing to start a flame war, I think the above says more about your blinkered attitude than it does about the quality of American sitcoms.

Steve Berry, my attitude is not blinkered. I've given a great many American sitcoms a go and found them to be unfunny rubbish. Excuse me for giving up for a while.

>Glad you're enjoying Friends, though. I think it's one of the best sitcoms out there.

I was wrong about Friends and I'm happy to admit that.

The Simpsons is excellent too, though technically not a sitcom and I quite enjoy The Nanny, but you don't get that here.

>The Simpsons is excellent too, though technically not a sitcom

It's a comedy set in a recurring situation, what other qualifications does a situation-comedy need?

>Steve Berry, my attitude is not blinkered. I've given a great many American sitcoms a go and found them to be unfunny rubbish. Excuse me for giving up for a while.

Just wanted to clarify, bearing in mind the inconsistencies on this forum sometimes. At first reading, your post seems to be a bit dog-in-a-manger.

Cheerio

>Pheobe is a dumb, annoying, valley-girl type bimbo at first. Then you realise that she's SUPPOSED to be a dumb, annoying, valley-girl type bimbo and that's why she's funny.

Yeah, she is supposed to be dumb, but that doesn't make it funny. To my mind.
And Frasier was better in earlier series. And when it was on on Wednesdays.

>And Frasier was better in earlier series. And when it was on on Wednesdays.

...and on the radio. (Oh, hang on...)

Cheerio

Friends has definitely had its day. Inevitable, considering how many episodes they've done so far (have you seen how much shelf space it takes up on video in HMV? Jesus!)
The most recent series have definitely suffered from trying to ring changes from the formula - moving character roles around etc. The most significant change has been turning Chandler into a plot-lynchpin (in the Monica relationship). This moved the sarcastic-chorus character to the centre of the action, thus removing a vital acid element and making the show as saccharine as its detractors claim. Any sugary show needs a debunker, to keep the cynics watching, and losing Matthew Perry's nasty asides has spoilt the last appealing element of the show.
IMHO.

PS: The UK Friends show was one of the worst things on TV ever, apart from the episode of Roseanne that had the Absolutely Fabulous cast in it... Hang on, it's Jennifer Saunders... She was in both... It's her fault!

I think Matt Perry is cute, that is all.

Bringing it down to your level, eh?

I can't see the detractors to Phoebe at all. She's the best damn character in it. Lisa Kudrow is a fantastic actor (though sadly typecast now), and she really does pull it off well. The others... Schwimmer and Aniston really to have acting problems, i think.

Matt Perry was a guest on the Logie Awards one year (Australia's TV awards). The entire night can be fairly dire, but I feel that Matt provided the absolute worst moments of all. He was so...so...so dull. No verve, no wit, no charm. Sorry RHC, he's an empty vessel.

I'm recently discovered US sitcom Just Shoot Me. Do you get it there?

Ah, Just Shoot me. An NBC, if I recall correctly. not bad, it does have a very strong cast (dammit, what's the corpulent guy's name? dammit).

Just Shoot Me is on Paramount Comedy Channel over here (cable/satellite/OnDigital from January 1st, terrestrial fans). I have not watched it. Am I missing out?

Yes. Give it a couple of episodes to get the hang of the characters.

I don't care if he's not funny, he's cute, that is all.

>I don't care if he's not funny, he's cute, that is all.

You're a pleb.

Thank you, come again.

Just Shoot me is fantastically ace most of the time, though sadly it does have weak points. not every character is as strong as could be - well, this isn't Shakespeare, this is sitcom [and THIS is Channel 4]- but I think the whole hangs together very nicely, despite the whole willshewon'tshe relationship gubbins that keeps guming up the works.

subbes, I hope I never have the pleasure.

Aw, Radiator Head girlie, rise above it! :0)

>subbes, I hope I never have the pleasure.

You hope you never ograsm? Oh well, your loss.

orgasm, even. Typing when drunk : very hard.

>Aw, Radiator Head girlie, rise above it! :0)


What Ailie said.

Because there's going to be far worse in life than my making jokes...



Whoever that was in back there, I heard you, and you *will* be kneecapped later.

>>The Simpsons is excellent too, though technically not a sitcom
>
>It's a comedy set in a recurring situation, what other qualifications does a situation-comedy need?

My point was that technically it is animation. I agree that it is an animated sitcom.

Speaking of which didn't it suck how The Flintstones had a laugh track?