I remember Chris Morris, Lee & Herring et al being called "the New Wave of New Wave". Was this some sub-editor's folly or do people genuinely regard 'that lot' as such?

Of course! They're the alternative to the alternative! ... er, which would make them part of accepted society.

New Wave Of New Wave top ten - you left out These Animal Men

Top Ten Things People Wrongly Claim The Beatles Invented:

1. Distortion
2. Phasing
3. Playing tape backwards
4. Feedback
5. Close harmony singing
6. Hair
7. Being men
8. The Sixties
9. Coy acknowledgement of counterculture
10. Ugliness

>Top Ten Things People Wrongly Claim The Beatles Invented:
>
>1. Distortion
>2. Phasing
>3. Playing tape backwards
>4. Feedback
>5. Close harmony singing
>6. Hair
>7. Being men
>8. The Sixties
>9. Coy acknowledgement of counterculture
>10. Ugliness

11. The Soda Stream.

>>Top Ten Things People Wrongly Claim The Beatles Invented:
>>
>>1. Distortion
>>2. Phasing
>>3. Playing tape backwards
>>4. Feedback
>>5. Close harmony singing
>>6. Hair
>>7. Being men
>>8. The Sixties
>>9. Coy acknowledgement of counterculture
>>10. Ugliness
>
>11. The Soda Stream.
>
>

12. Music.

"Top Ten Romo"

FACT: only 4 bands identified as "romo" ever released any records: Orlando, Sexus, Plastic Fantastic and Dex Dexter.

In case you're wondering: no I wasn't. But I've got all the Orlando stuff (3 singles + 1 album; supposedly there is a 2nd album that will be released on the internet one day) and will defend it against all comers. I also got the 1 Sexus single the other week, just becuaes I happened to see it in a catalogue. It wasn't very good really.

Dickon from Orlando formed the band Fosca who released their debut album last week. It's really good. Shame all shelf-space was given over to sodding Radiohead.

Did you like Menswear?

>I remember Chris Morris, Lee & Herring et al being called "the New Wave of New Wave". Was this some sub-editor's folly or
>do people genuinely regard 'that lot' as such?

I believe a fanzine by the name of "Christ's Fat Cock!" styled them thus, once upon a time...

Anyone up for a Top Ten Movement-With-No-Name, by the way? For those (like me) who don't remember, this would encompass Joy Division, Crispy Ambulance and... well...

God you're old!

Anyone remember Vagina Five?

>Top Ten They Might Be Giants Videos (genuine suggestion, this one)
>

Well, it's got to be Ana Ng at number one. Closely followed by Birdhouse.

I'm going to watch Direct From Brooklyn now.

Nope. The Statue Got Me High at number one.

Ah, dammit, they're all great. Except Snail Shell, which isn't.

Peter O -

I liked some Menswear singles. Never bothered to get the album. They did a good version of "Public Image" as a b-side once.

I saw them live once, it turned out to be a R1 thing for the Evening Session. Joe Whiley was there. God, she was fat.

I don't care what anyone says - they were manufactured as hell, and hyped as hell too, but Menswear made some fantastic music.

I was once mistaken for one of them, you know...

Whatever happened to them? I know they split, but where are they now?

Fave Menswear things:
'Crash' (b-side of 'We Love You')
'Being Brave'
'Public Image' (b-side of 'Being Brave')
'Daydreamer'
'Stardust'

They're still going, I think... their label bit the dust and no new deals were forthcoming, but they recorded a second album in Japan, which was somewhere between The James Taylor Quartet and Beck, and definitely worth a listen. It should still be available on import.

My favourite track was 'Sleeping In', but I also loved the mystery bonus track on the album..

Here are my top ten tens:

1. The Sesame Street 10. "Ten! Ten! Ten! The number is Ten! Ten! Ten! How many is teeeeeeeeeen?!"

2. 10 Little Indians by Curve (whatever happened to...)

3. News at Ten - bong!

4. & 5. 10 Bloody Marys and 10 Hows your Fathers by Elvis Costello and the Attractions

6. "Ten" by Pearl Jam, just for the laughable pomposity.

7. <disappears up own arse>

"Curve (whatever happened to...)"

They split after "Cuckoo", then tried a comeback 2 or 3 years ago, to no interest.

I wish I'd bought the really early EPs when they came out. I tried to get them a while ago and they cost about £15 each nowadays.

TJ - Menswear are definitely defunct now. Justin told me, and he works in the record industry, so you'd expect him to know all about what's going down in the music business.

>Here are my top ten tens:
>
>1. The Sesame Street 10. "Ten! Ten! Ten! The number is Ten! Ten! Ten! How many is teeeeeeeeeen?!"

Tenpole Tudor.
Dixy's Midnight Runners.
"Mars Is A Ten" - ESP Continent.
"X" - Main (from Firmament)
"X" - Alfred Schnittke (from Psalms of Repentance).

I seem to have opened a can of shite with that Menswear question.

Also Curve were another manufactured band, in the sense that they were funded by Dave Stewart, dressed up in 1991 indie clothing and sent their shoe-gazing-by-numbers EP to Melody Maker, which at that point was giving good reviews to Transvision Vamp, and hence had multiple orgasms over Curve because the singer was a "looker" with plenty of make up on.

Do I make myself clear?

Manufactured music is sometimes brilliant.

Look at The Monkees.

>Also Curve were another manufactured band, in the sense that they were funded by Dave Stewart, dressed up in 1991 indie clothing and sent their shoe-gazing-by-numbers EP to Melody Maker

Well, I agree with all of that except the 'shoegazing-by-numbers' bit. They were practically *designed* to have Steve Sutherland and Chris Roberts foaming at the mouth, but those first couple of singles stuck out a mile from the vague, blissy, la-la-la guitar-wash of the shoegazers. They had a bit of filth and attack to them. Lots more going on beats-wise too. Toni whatshername might have been writing garbage, but at least she *enunciated* properly - performing with a bit of bite.

I recall Peel broadcasting their first session in early '91 and saying something to the effect of "well, of course they're manufactured - so were The Sex Pistols - but what a glorious noise".

Lost its appeal fairly rapidly though. 2nd LP rivalled Northside and The Railway Children for its ubiquity in bargain bins six months after release.

Mike -

Any chance you could do me a tape of the early Curve stuff? Get in touch and we'll work out what I can tape for you.

[email protected]

Coming soon to Channel Four, BBC2, Sky and bloody everywhere

Top Ten Top Tens
Top Ten clip shows
Top Ten Pin Bowling
(that's enough Top Tens- Ed)

How about Top Ten Experimental Comedies?

(No. 3 - The Fast Show)

"Laura and Disorder" was an experimental sitcom. The experiment was to try to do it without any gags.

>
>>Also Curve were another manufactured band, in the sense that they were funded by Dave Stewart, dressed up in 1991 indie clothing and sent their shoe-gazing-by-numbers EP to Melody Maker
>
>Well, I agree with all of that except the 'shoegazing-by-numbers' bit. They were practically *designed* to have Steve Sutherland and Chris Roberts foaming at the mouth, but those first couple of singles stuck out a mile from the vague, blissy, la-la-la guitar-wash of the shoegazers. They had a bit of filth and attack to them. Lots more going on beats-wise too. Toni whatshername might have been writing garbage, but at least she *enunciated* properly - performing with a bit of bite.

Sounds awfully like the Eurythmics trying to do shoe-gazing and getting it "wrong" by trying to be a bit rock'n'roll (i.e. improving on it, which wasn't difficult, let's face it - e.g. Chapterhouse. God I'm gagging at the memory. People used to wear long-sleeved T-shirts advertising these things. Not to mention Ned's Atomic Dustbin.)

Shoot me down in flames for saying this, but Chapterhouse were alright. I got the 2CD compilation "Rownderbowt" a while back and they did have some really good tracks - Pearl, Mesmerise, Breather, Frost, that other one with the drums on it.

Yes, they probably were a load of ex-public school twats, but I've never read a Mogwai interview in which I didn't find them violently objectionable people, and I still love the albums. Well, the one I've got, anyway.

MSP were a complete joke in 1991, as everyone seems to have forgotten. They only had a go at Slowdive etc. to mimic the Sex Pistols' slagging-off prog rock. Since then they've pretty much admitted they like the music.

Neds were rubbish though, I heartily agree. The simnger dropped out of Birmingham University to be in the band - what a twat, eh?

My Bloody Valentine and Ride were spectacular, though. Not all shoegazing was bad.

And Blur were pretty shoegazy at first too...

Funnily enough, one of the reasons why the 1st Blur album was such a crushing disappointment to me was that I thought they were going to be the sort of band they actually became around the time of 'Parklife'. I ignored them for years because they weren't.

'Fool' on 'Leisure' is a rip-off of 'Nothing Much To Lose' by MBV. I think they've even admitted it.

As it happens, I was saying to someone in a band the other night that someone should do a pop version of 'You Made Me Realise' by MBV. The original version is simply one chord played at varying speeds and volumes. Throw that away and write simply that matches the tune of the lyrics.

'The Classical' by The Fall is another song that is just one chord played endlessly. 'Advert' by Blur and 'Expressway To Yr Skull' by Sonic Youth both have just 2 notes in them.

None of the tracks mentioned in this posting have ever had much radio play.

Seriously, I've always thought someone like George Michael should have a go at covering some Wedding Present songs. Get in an orchestra, get William Orbit, get Deon Estus on bass and Slash and Eric Clapton on guitars, but just do a full-blown proper pop version. The world will be amazed.

And Michael Jackson should finally release that album of Smiths covers.

First single release: Hand in Glove

Boom boom!

>Sounds awfully like the Eurythmics trying to do shoe-gazing and getting it "wrong" by trying to be a bit rock'n'roll (i.e. improving on it, which wasn't difficult, let's face it - e.g. Chapterhouse. God I'm gagging at the memory. People used to wear long-sleeved T-shirts advertising these things. Not to mention Ned's Atomic Dustbin.

Bah, you've got me bang to rights there, Pete. In fact, I think I've even got a long-sleeve *Curve* T-shirt somewhere. I used a Lush top to do the decorating in last month. It didn't look much different afterwards... so *that's* how Vaughan Oliver did those covers...

The Neds were part of another horrid phenomenon altogether - what did NME call it? Fraggle or something? Ugh, filthy - put it *down*.

The shoegazing business (and wasn't that the Food boss's description?) - well, I enbraced it at the time as it seemed to be some kind of blending of the sort of euphoric disembodied guitar textures of MBV, a dash of Eno ambience and some hooky pop melodies. I think the record that was both its apotheosis *and* nadir was the first Chapterhouse album - garlanded upon release in Spring '91, a laughing stock by the time of their Reading appearance (*after* Nirvana et al). Of course, there were bands playing the FX-pedal game who had a few other ideas too - Pale Saints, Moose, etc - still listenable today, I'd say.

I suppose "Isn't Anything" started it (though no one, Pale Saints apart, even approached the strangeness of that record), and "Loveless" (for showing everyone up) and "Nevermind" (for reinvigorating hard indie-rock) killed it stone dead.

Now, can someone please explain to me what Mogwai do that's any different to the maligned Thames Valley class of '91?

Dean Garcia, of course, was bass player with The Eurythmics for a while during the 80s, ironically enough.

Can't think of anything funny to say about that. Which is consistent with my other postings, at least.

>Dean Garcia, of course, was bass player with The Eurythmics for a while during the 80s, ironically enough.
>
Dean Garcia of Curve, I should have said.

I think both versions of the sentence worked, for me anyway. Don't sweat it. I just listened to "You Made Me Realise" and I counted at least four chords. Anyway, it's brilliant, however many chords it's got. "Tomorrow Never Knows" was only one chord but George Martin cunningly added some organ noises featuring a bonus chord. Only Paul McCartney could possibly be snotty about the end result, which is brilliant. And no fucker will have a go at Lush and walk away from me on their real legs!

What Mogwai do that's different:

They release lazyily slung together worthless trash, and then have the nerve to claim that they are better than Blur

Blur, it would seem, are victims of record company nonsense again. Here is a group that, despite being one of EMI's biggest earners of recent years, have not been trusted to choose their own "Best Of" track-listing. Instead, the 'public' have been consulted. And the results?

Only one album track ("This Is A Low", admittedly). Nothing at all off Modern Life Is Rubbish (coincidentally an album EMI loathed on its release) apart from an alternative version of For Tomorrow. Popscene (unavailable on a UK album) omitted in favour of the unbrilliant Charmless Man. In short, an album compiled on nothing else other than chart performance - which, given it's not a Greatest Hits set but a Best Of - is a stupid idea. But what else do you expect from EMI?

Nothing to do with TV. But shows you how the record industry has dumbed down too.

I agree it's making me very angry. Some of Blur's best stuff has been hidden away on albums or b-sides... and how can the best of not have 'Popscene' on it?

Disgraceful.

"Now, can someone please explain to me what Mogwai do that's any different to the maligned Thames Valley class of '91?"

They rip-off Slint.

>"Now, can someone please explain to me what Mogwai do that's any different to the maligned Thames Valley class of '91?"
>
>They rip-off Slint.

Which very neatly gives you a starting point for that tape you're making me... "Spiderland" has always been one of those 'must borrow that off someone' records. I'm particularly intrigued because the 'Mogwai owe everything to Dave Pajo' line seems to come up a lot, and yet they sound to me like Slowdive without the mimsy singing. Which is a short but significant sidestep from the Tortoise/Aerial M/Labradford end of things...

Of course, there are other reasons to loathe Mogwai...

"Self-satisfied student tossers" is the phrase that always comes to mind when I read any interviews with them. Especially that Stuart Braithwaite, he should just piss off and get a job for the first time in his life.

I do like "Mogwai Young Team" though.

i feel i must defend Mogwai at this point.... right that'll do

I was really hoping that Popscene was going to be on that CD. I expected it to be. In my opinion, that's when Blur peaked. Modern Life... was mostly good, but Parklife had Girls and Boys, a truly awful song.

Neds were better anyway.

They've got their own strand (see below).