I would like to point out at this juncture that the only reason I was on the T4 website was because of the censorship of messages mentioned in the threads above and I wanted to see if they would take off a particularly forceful attack on Mr Gervaise's new show.
Honest.
>Well, I found it funny anyway.
I don't find it funny. I can see what you're getting at, though. But try putting yourself in the shoes of someone has a strong belief in God - something that is such a big part of your life. It is really easy to criticize religion, because it is like nothing else.
Having said that, thre are many people who use religion as a smokescreen to hide behind - moreso, though, in the past than now. Terrible things were done in the name of religion, but these things don't make the religion not true by themselves.
I don't know if this is the best place for a religious debate, though. Maybe I shouldn't have posted this.
I've posted my thoughts over at T4 and I don't think we should get into the subject over here.
Of course you should have posted it. I agree that it is easy to mock someone's religion, particularly if it happens to be Christianity. What I found amusing was his view that everyone should accept God into their hearts and experience his eternal love for all maknind OR burn in hell for all eternity. I just love the duality of it. When he started on Robin Hood also made me chuckle, and when he tried to explain why God is a jealous god:
"God himself admits he is Jealous. Its because we are officialy his so he is gonna be jealous when we don't love him back and instead love other things instead of him!
think about it. Why won't you accept the christian faith? What are you scared of?"
I think it's the "officially his" bit that gets me, but perhaps it's just that I'm scared.
I think what amuses you is the utter banality of the thoughts and their expression. I find it a bit tiresome, myself.
>I think what amuses you is the utter banality of the thoughts and their expression. I find it a bit tiresome, myself.
I would tend to agree, especially as I work with a number of fundamentalist christians, two of whom don't believe in dinosaurs. The arguments do tend to leave you feeling a little haggard as no matter what evidence or arguments you provide (physical in the case of the dinosaurs) it is always met with a wistful and patronising smile.
Saying that though I thought that Barry was doing an admirable job on the T4 site as most christians these days shy away from the whole "burn in hell thing" but at least he's going the whole hog (Militant priests are among my favourite characters in films so perhaps thats why).
There is no such thing as "Christianity" - the different churches believe very different things.
For example, the literal truth of the book of Genesis is an article of faith for extreme Protestants, but it has never been for Catholics. Catholicism allows non-literalism about scriptures.
>There is no such thing as "Christianity" - the different churches believe very different things.
>
I don't doubt that this is the case Jon, although wouldn't the majority of these churches still place themselves in the Christianity circle in the Venn diagram of Faith?
I read your remarkable well written post on T4, were you a theology / philosophy perchance?
More importantly are you tempted to take up Barry's offer of going down to Stevenage to meet his youth pastor Paul?
I'd quite like to have a look at this "Alpha course" thing, just to check out my suspicions that it's a load of anti-Catholic propaganda (most 'born-again' things are. As you may have inferred, I was brought up RC).
Yes, I have studied philosophy, and I have an interest in the worthwhile bits of Christian theological writing, none of which were written in the 20th century.
Are you a big fan of Boethius then? If so, and you also like reading fiction, I would heartily recommend a book called "A confederacy of Dunces" by John Kennedy Toole.
I've heard of that. Didn't he kill himself because it couldn't get published, and his mum got it done posthumously?
And is the story a sort of comedy of errors?
>I've heard of that. Didn't he kill himself because it couldn't get published, and his mum got it done posthumously?
Yes, he committed suicide aged 32, and his mother, finding the manuscript in his room, went from publisher to publisher for 10 years before getting it into print. It went on to win the Pullitzer prize as well as some others.
You're right in describing it as a comedy of errors, but it is in the characters themselves that I found most of the humour. I can't really explain here why I thought it was so excellent but if you buy it and don't like it I will give you triple your money back...probably.
I can't recommend it highly enough.
<...who is thrashing around defending his faith like a rather pompous, harpooned whale.
Well, I found it funny anyway.
Are harpooned whales well-known for their pomposity?
Yes. They moan on about how they're more advanced than other sea-based mammals because they have their own language, but no one understands what they're on about.
Well I have had a reply from Barry (see below) regarding the trip to Stevenage, and although I am slightly disturbed by his desire to know my age and gender (surely it shouldn't matter) it looks as if my pilgrimage is on.
"From: "Barry Rust"
To [email protected]
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 19:47:12 GMT
Well i don't quite know what to think. If you seriously want to come. first where do you live? what part of the country?
next how old are you and are you male/female.
Once you answer i will consider this offer that was for anarky but he didn't have the balls to accept. yet"
Barry Rust? Barry RUST?!? RUST?!!?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!! That's brilliant! That's classic!
[Wipes away tears]
It's even funnier if you say it quickly:
Mister Rust...misterust...mistrust...
Supragnat it seems you have met your match. Barry Rust is a clear cut case of an ironic antagonist. The ironies you are picking up on are clearly deliberate. He's reeled you in. He's deceived you. You have been defied! Barry Rust is no more real than I am.
Bah!