I'm not a big fan of Moran. He strikes me as being like Izzard, but with less to say.

Black Books was alright, but their didn't seem enough in the first ep to make it funny.

their?! their?! What am I, some kind of illiterite?

I do, of course, mean they're.

I liked it. It'll get better, some bits were a bit slow or stilted, but they had to set the characters up. The thing about the Jehovah's Witnesses being startled when someone asks them in was an old Absolutely sketch, but it was probably unintentional to replicate it, anyway it got a new twist with the Bill Bailey bit later on.

I enjoyed it. It seemed more like a series of sketches linked together with some running gags than a sitcom, plus it reminded me of a few other shows in parts (eg Moran's character is akin to Basil Fawlty). Some nice touches - I loved the Bill Bailey as Jesus part!

A good first episode, I'll be interested to see if they keep it up.

I like the Tom Waits rip-off theme music, but as for the rest, well, I'm not too sure. I'm a bit worried that the best bits are all in the trailers. Still, beats the crap out of "Rhona" any day.

Dylan Moran and Graham Linehan have never watched 'Absolutely' in their lives. It shows.

Although I have never written a sitcom in my life perhaps I shouldn't comment.. however as an audience member I believe I have the right.

anyway - first episode: surely very difficult. They've got to establish the characters, set the scene, get some of the links set, etc, etc.

I though it was good - had me laughing. And anyone else who's had to do a tax return would respect his methods of avoidance.

Anyone who writes a sitcom set in a bookshop deserves success..... Hang on a minute, I'm forgetting "After Henry"....

'Ellen' was originally set in a bookshop.

Watched it. Laughed all the way through. Looking forward to next week. That's the point of a sitcom IMHO.

As always difficult to judge on first episode, but I did enjoy it. A few quirky bits (shades of 'Ted' creeping in) but overall not too bad. Will follow it through.

Al - IMHO?

I think I would have enjoyed it more if it was funny.

I thought Bill Baily's performance lacked talent.

I'm not a big fan of Moran because he's shit.

I think Bill Baily has more hair than charisma.

Bill Baily would make an excellent busker (the sooner he starts the better)

IMHO = In My Humble Opinion

Incidentally, is it just my imagination or are Gee's observations even more baseless and abusive than before the forum went down?

I've always considered myself rather mild mannered. I don't think anyone could accuse me of being abusive. All I'm saying in that all Bill Baily's talent is in his fingers.

You're not abusive - but I think it's not unreasonable to describe some of your above comments on Black Books abusive (Moran is shit etc etc)

Bill Bailey is a very funny man.

Oh, Gee, it must be such *fun* being you!


I liked Black Books, I thought it was an excellent first show (as first shows go - they're usually the weakest due to character establishing etc) and I'm really looking forward to the 2nd show tonight. So there!

<Oh, Gee, it must be such *fun* being you!

It is. I'm fantastic in bed and I'll do anything.

>It is. I'm fantastic in bed and I'll do anything.

I'd advise not eating chocolate hob nobs - the crumbs get eveywhere.

Thank Christ - at long last something funny on television. Some people have been twatting on about its 'barking' nature (er, it's no more eccentric, frankly, than Ever Decreasing Circles), but these people (and we all know who they are) have barely watched television and do not understand anything about it. (Clue: Other listings magazines are available). But Black Books was really good tonight - missed last week's, so I'm catching up. In short, Channel 4's third good sitcom in nearly 20 years (Father Ted and Nightingales, the others).

And David Cann's one speech....what a top man.

Buzzcocks is about to shrivel like a louse in a Russian's beard, if there's any justice.

That doesn't sound very fair on the louse.

I missed last week's, but it was fucking funny this week. The lame "I want to buy a book" confounded expectations jokes aside, it was fantastic.

Saw last week's show, but this weeks was definetely better as it appears to have settled into its quirky style already - a damm sighter quicker than TGP (hint: because it hasn't been stretched over 22 episodes and they've obviously tried to keep it tight rather than rush it through - result: it looks more polished and feels paced better).

The Moran-Bailey pairing in the acting, and Moran-Lineham combination in the writing is working really well so far. I won't spoil it for anyone who has missed this - but definetly recommend a viewing.

Bollocks. I always miss good things. (Not my bollocks, I don't miss them. They were never any use anyway.)

I didn't see last weeks either but saw it this week and it was terrific. I agree it is so much easier to watch than TGP. I don't really have any complaints about TGP but I agree the pace of it makes for heartier laughs. TGP is so gag-packed you feel pressurised to concentrate on the word-play where as the characters of Dylan and Bill are so endearing that they don't have to say anything particularly funny to make you laugh.

Yep, C4 have done themselves proud with this one. I can really sympathise with the "Oh my God, it's 10:30" business, having never risen before 11:47.

This week's was definitely better, they seem to have got all of the character setup out of the way last week so that this week's episode could concentrate on a single plot. Touches of surrealism (the fly closing the door) and Moran's acting talents seemingly no know bounds. Superb.

One question: was that Graham Linehan in the "I LOVE BOOKS" shirt near the beginning?

Yep I belueve it was. I spotted that, having recognised him from "I'm Alan Partridge"

Can't see the greatness in it. Pretty average I thought. I must either be out of step or else you lot are easily pleased.

Easily pleased??? Since when has anyone on this forum been easily pleased? It's Curmudgeon Central!

No that's what you'd like to believe. I've seen a lot of people praise a lot of crap. Black Books isn't dreadful but it's not much better than the rest. I really didn't hear any really funny jokes, although some of the visual jokes were quite clever.

>No that's what you'd like to believe. I've seen a lot of people praise a lot of crap.

Says you. Most of the praise on this site is applied sparingly and is usually well deserved. Besides why would I like to believe it?

Because you delude yourself that you have good taste, sorry to be so blunt Al.

Hey - you know me pretty well for someone who's never met me.

It *really* pisses me off when people make statements like 'you think that...' or 'you would believe...' How the fuck would you know what I do or don't think? I don't delude myself over anything. My taste is my own, I'll stand by it. Believing it to be good would imply some universal standard of taste that all should aspire to. I don't believe in that. I genuinely thought Black Books was funny. You don't. End of story - don't go implying that I'm wrong or delusional for holding an opinion.

I don't think it's crap or anything Al, I just don't see it as anything special. Sorry about appearing rude but I often go for the amusing sentence rather than the correct one. You have every right to be pissed off and I apologize for sounding so smug.

Apology accepted. I went off on one a bit there - it's the second time this weekend someone made presumptions about my mindset (the first time a Tory accused me of being a fascist - the cheek!) and I was a bit oversensitive.

Saw the second one on Friday - I thought it was fantastic.

Oh, I already said that.

Well I think it's OK. Certainly better than anything else C4 are offering us at the minute, if I have to see one more smug American face, like those gimps from 'Fiends' (sic. intentional) then my innards will spontaneously burst through my apertures and perform a routine from Starlight Express, before singing an acapella medley of hits from everyones favourite Turkish singer, Tarkan.

"It's the second time this weekend someone made presumptions about my mindset (the first time a Tory accused me of being a fascist - the cheek!)"

[Imagine the scene... Al is on his way to the Annual General Meeting of Communist Media Studies Lecturers. He's on horseback, dressed as Mussolini]

Al [struggling with reins]: Oof!... This will certainly make them wake up when I tell them this is how I deal with the substance/reality/irony issue in Baudrillard...

Passing Tory: Excuse me, are you a fascist?

Al: Aaagh! Too damn clever for my own good!

LOL!

Anyway... I got round to watching the tape of BB ep2 last night and I think it's really good, in fact the series is shaping up to be something special.

I've never seen Dylan Moran in anythingh before. Anyone got some "How do you want me?" vids I could borrow?

>I've never seen Dylan Moran in anythingh before. Anyone got some "How do you want me?" vids I could borrow?

It's running (possibly in its entirety - there were two series, weren't there?) every night at 11-ish before Seinfeld on BBC2 at the moment. I neglected it at the time... God knows why - it's got Charlotte Coleman in it for goodness sake.

>God knows why - it's got Charlotte Coleman in it for goodness sake.

Big face.

There's a pattern emerging I think. Big faces must be sexxxy!


I've watched that second ep. of BB a couple of times now, I can't wait for Friday now. It's been a long time since I looked forward to a TV comedy. Tuned into "How Do You Want Me?" the other night, quite amusing too.

Really enjoyed tonight's show, despite several of the set-ups being predictable the final gags were not typical. Especially appreciated the appearance of the actor Kevin Eldon as the freaky cleaning man - I wonder if he is that scary in real life as he manages to play parts like that so well?

Well, I thought ep3 was a comedy classic to rival the best of Fawlty Towers and I expect to see it repeated at least once a year for the rest of my life. No, really.

Ok, I think I may have been slightly over the top in my last post, proclaiming BB to B the greatest thing since the creation of the universe, but nevertheless, it is brilliant, and it will be a classic.

The mental image of jam in the bath will stay with me for ever.

Oh yeah. How do you pronounce Graham Linehan's name?

>Oh yeah. How do you pronounce Graham Linehan's name?

Linehan, I think.

Black Books is too good to let it drift away into Old Topics. Last night's wasn't quite up to last week's "don't-drink-that-wine" minor classic, but Bailey (who could more or less make me laugh simply by turning up) is turning into a brilliant comic actor. Not that I've seen him act in anything else, unless you count the "Is It?" sketches. Yes, Moran and Linehan have watched Seinfeld for inspiration in plot twists, but as regular forum-goers will know by now, that's fine if you can pull it off. And Black Books does.

It's not getting much press coverage, for some reason. But, for anyone who hasn't seen it yet, don't be put off by the largely poor Hippies (which I know Graham Linehan didn't write, but he helped devise, didn't he?).

The show is great. The abbot crying in the preamble to episode 3 was astonishing. Very refreshing to be able to give the thumbs up to something new, rather than just bitch about 11OCS all the time, isn't it?

My only reservation is that I'd like to see the two separate strands of each episode (ie what the female character does vs what the boys do) tie up in some way. It's the sort of thing David Renwick is a master of and Linehan managed only occasionally in Father Ted.

> Last night's wasn't quite up to last week's "don't-drink-that-wine" minor classic

Oh, I don't know. Belly Savalas? Cobumbo? It's outstanding (though it would seem I missed the iffy stuff - the first show and much of the second). So - the theme: more John Lurie than Waits, perhaps?

Ep 4 was pretty good, although not quite as good as the previous ones. I suspect they had trouble getting the structure to work, hence the kind of flashback structure which started in the middle of the episode. It might have been better if we'd seen the broken bones at the begninng, but hey, that's comedy. Or something.

Ok, so the plots are extremely loose, Moran seems to want to be typecast as a drunk, and it feels as if you're watching a load of sketches patched together.

But I still find it the funniest on television show at present.

Is it me? Or does Kevin Eldon behave sooooo differently on TV to Radio?
On Radio (The Big Booth) he's really hyperactive and mad.
On TV he's just mad, but scary mad.
Does anyone have any clue what I'm talking about?

I know what will happen now I'll come back tomorrow and there will be a stream of horrible abuse aimed at me and I'll cry.
I'm 15, I'm avoiding revising for my mocks, I can't understand what you guys are talking about half the time.
Help

I love Boothby Graffoe.

Welcome aboard, RHC. Don't be alarmed - we're all pretty friendly here.

Ta Justin, hope that wasn't sarcasm.
(This isn't)

>Welcome aboard, RHC. Don't be alarmed - we're all pretty friendly here.

Unless you represent the 11 O'clock show - then it's free for all....!

I don't usually do spoilers but.......


....and now, *A Book At Bedtime*. Joe Pasquale reads Heidi......

ROFL!

Funny as Hell (Really really funny)
Bit embarrasing to watch with one's parents.
Felt the bit about the bees was funniest.
Still in shock from seeing Sean Lock (understated comedy God) on Buzzcocks!

I can't think of another comedy (this year) that has been as consistently funny, except of course Frasier.

BB - Black Books & Bill Bailey - is the only thing that has made me want to contribute to this forum of late (even though I never really contributed an awful lot before) which in my mind speaks volumes about how lousy everything is at the moment.

I shall never be able to listen to the Shipping Forecast in the same way again!

And I'm still in shock for laughing at Joe Pasquale twice in one week (after having successfully managed to avoid seeing him for years).

Still can't see what's so good about it. It doesn't make me laugh (although the bee bit was amusing).

Every week I'm shocked how strong the opening few minutes of each of these shows is.
This week's Subbuteo player joke was simply fantastic. The running gag about Bill Bailey not quite listening to anything he's told was good enough, but adding a slow zoom into a wig raised it to some marvellous new level.
After all this time, we finally get a "conventional" sitcom (ie: set contemporarily, recognisable characters, simple farcical plots etc) that is consistently funny. Nothing clever-clever, just giggly and silly.
Perfect. No subtext. No attempt to "say something". Ahhh.
That'll keep the critics away from it for a series or two.

RHC -

I can understand why you'd be embarassed watching something like Gimme Gimme Gimme or Lee&Herring with your parents, but what's their problem with BB? Just tell them to lay off. If they don't like it, they shouldn't watch it.

Did you not see the bit with Fran?!?!?
My parents said nothing, it's just embarassing watching things like that with your parents!
Still love the program, although not even I would stoop so low as to work in a fast food restaurant...

Best thing to do RHC is not to leave the room just after the programme finishes. That way they won't think you're off for a crafty Tommy Tank.

Some people on this forum scare me.
Especially people who say things like that, Gee.
Is that speaking from experience?

Oh yes I'm speaking from experience RHC. I'll tell you what's worse though (and this is true) turning the video on and finding that it's got hardcore porn in it. My mother tried to tell me she thought it was a comedy. She'd only borrowed it from someone she worked with she said. The thought of her watching a sex film made me want to puke (never really got on with the woman).

I haven't bothered to read all the previous postings on this matter (I'm illiterate) but does anyone else think that the drunken, angry main character in black books is exactly the same as in How Do You Want Me?

Is this the only character this guy knows how to play?

>Best thing to do RHC is not to leave the room just after the programme finishes. That way they won't think you're off for a crafty Tommy Tank.

LOL Gee you're so empathetic to a young girl's dilema!

What's this dilemma you speak of kinder?

lol I doubt you'd be able to poignantly solve my problems in quite the same style you did with Radiator's tommy tank yearnings.

P.S You don't happen to be a psychologist do you?

for the last time I don't have that sort of thing in my head, if I wanted sex I would have sex, and lots of it. Fortunately have no yearnings in this way only love for men twice my age or quite a bit older, and by love, I mean love in the non sexual sense.
Freud would have a field day with you lot.

>for the last time I don't have that sort of thing in my head, if I wanted sex I would have sex, and lots of it. Fortunately have no yearnings in this way only love for men twice my age or quite a bit older, and by love, I mean love in the non sexual sense.
>Freud would have a field day with you lot.

And you too, it would appear... Men twice your age. Tsk tsk.

Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately for you Kinder , I don't know a damn thing about psychology. The only subject I know a little about is history and people tend to find this boring. But having said that, if you are torn towards a life of depravity I'd be only happy to hear which route you intend to take. A lot of pleasure and comfort can be found in confiding your problems to an amateur historian (amateur historians particularity find pleasure in it).

RHC I take it you are talking of Platonic love? I believe Platonic love is a love which does not involve sexual intercourse. However I remember reading that the ancient Greeks rubbed themselves against the buttock of other men because they found it much more exciting than actually having sex. Oscar Wilde, bless the sweet genius, preferred to do this rather than have full sex with men. Bosie, his lover, even wrote a poem on the subject: "The Rubbing Up The Buttocks That Dare Not Speak It's Name". As for Freud I did try and read The Interpretation Of Dreams but I found his theories daft.

I'd be only [too] happy to hear which route you intend to take.

As for Freud I did try and read The Interpretation Of Dreams but I found his theories daft.

Yes. I agree. Also Lacan. Is it me, or do psychoanalystical writers/theorists get away with positing whatever takes their fancy and expect everyone to just take it on their say so?

And I agree with you Al. I suppose what Freud did do was break the taboo of writing about sex. As Emile Zola wrote: I am allowed by law to describe the most gruesome murders but the same law will not allow me to describe the act of making love.

Freudianism is incoherent. The psyche is never analysed.

There's no evidence to support Freuds cliam - even less than other psychological schools of thought, whioch ahve a tiny little bit.

Agreed. Freud's arguments are circular.

The elements into which the subject's personality are supposedly analysed are themselves tacitly understood to be personalities, so no progress in explanation is made, and there is no constraint on alternative structures.

It is as if we had a diary written by someone in the past, about which no other evidence existed, and decided to explain its contents by supposing several authors worked on it. Nothing is gained, and there is no good reason to prefer any one of the endlessly different possible authorship theories. But that is all Freud achieves with talk of the libido, id, etc.

Scary scary people in the world and I found them, what are the chances of that?
Platonic love involving as little contact as possible is my route, Gee or Al or whoever said that.

Was that in this week's episode, or the one with the dusty wine bottles?

What's scary about us lot?

The fact you had to ask.

You're just being silly.

me? Silly?!
Yeah

midnight cowboy
omid djalli
more bees
there is nothing more I could want from comedy ever again

I found it rather formless and not particularly funny. They don't know what to do with the female character. However, Bill Bailey is a naturally funny performer. He was good.

Not the funniest episode but the photography session was very daft ('Big & Bearded' - a nice touch).

Hope there's a second series.

David Walliams in yeserday's episode.

Could someone please try and remember what his one line was? I missed it because my brother wouldn't SHUT THE FUCK UP!!! FOR THE FULL FIRST HALF!!! Thank God for Teletext page 888.

I taped it, so the Walliams line was:

DW : You know, I'm probably getting a lot of secondary smoke from you.

DM : Don't worry about it, get me a drink sometime.

Unfortunately, my video decided to cut off the ending. What happened just after Dylan Moran asked to borrow BB's corkscrew? Anyone?

ooh, I know this one... hang on erm will post this tomorrow.

>I taped it, so the Walliams line was:
>
>DW : You know, I'm probably getting a lot of secondary smoke from you.
>
>DM : Don't worry about it, get me a drink sometime.
>
>Unfortunately, my video decided to cut off the ending. What happened just after Dylan Moran asked to borrow BB's corkscrew? Anyone?

BB takes it out of his pocket and - unseen by him - a casino chip falls on the floor. End credits roll - the end.

Not the best episode - as I think Jeanette said - but fine all the same, and the best sitcom I've seen for a long time.

Unusal final episode, almost bleak, and not as funny as the rest of the series. Still was the funniest sitcom I've seen for a long while.

Anyone know if there is plans for a second series?

Al- I was going to tell Mark! That is so annoying I went and dug out my tapes to find it as well. V.pissed off.

>Al- I was going to tell Mark! That is so annoying I went and dug out my tapes to find it as well. V.pissed off.

Sorry. Still you got to watch it again - can't be all bad.

We don't deserve this, it seems. Graham Linehan, speaking on London Live this morning, said that apparently "no-one watched it". The idiots.

Don't know about a second series.

Thanks for revealing the ending, there. It's incredibly annoying that one of the few decent sitcoms to make an appearance this year has been roundly thrashed in the ratings by (presumably) repeats of The Vicar Of Dibley.

And next week - repeats of the vastly overrated Trigger Happy TV (it was annoying in between the programmes on Paramount, let alone drawn out for six half-hours), just in time to promote the video and DVD.

Graham Lineham was on the radio this morning, and he confirmed that he and Dylan are writing a second series. Hoorah!

For anyone who missed Linehan on Sean Hughes' radio show this morning (that's where the Irish ex-pats meet, you know, on good old GLR), I'll repeat a nice Linehan Black Books fact:

The most sublime joke in Black Books IMHO - the subbuteo player in the security guy's hair - is an unused Father Ted gag.

In "A Song For Europe", Ted and Dougal were originally seen recording "My Lovely Horse" in a studio with a hippy who had an entire burger stuck in his hair, which kept distracting them.

Does anyone own this scene? Is it on the video? Is it in the script book?
It just made me laugh this morning and now I want to see it...

Yay, gives me a reason to re-read the script book. I'll have a look tonight and let you know.

Unless anyone else posts the answer up before me, that is :-)

P.S. This thread must not die until it has overtaken Who For Doctor Who at the top of the threads list.

>P.S. This thread must not die until it has overtaken Who For Doctor Who at the top of the threads list.

Sorry, temporal displacement error there, I should have said Best Local TV Idents. Same principle applies to both, tho'.

who has script book, how can I get one? Why must I ask stupid questions? for the love of biscuits why?

Some "new" Father Ted script book is out now (I think) in some form or other (small paperback possibly?). It's been available before as a big Christmas-style tie-in... Anyway, that's what Linehan was plugging on the radio.

He also let slip that Ted would soon be available on DVD, with, apparently, audio commentary from him and Arthur, though not Dermot Morgan because that would just be spooky.

>Some "new" Father Ted script book is out now (I think) in some form or other (small paperback possibly?).

Paperback, yes. It's about a tenner, I think.

GL was apparently on Richard Allinson's R2 show last night (but I wasn't in). But he was trailed on Steve Wright yesterday afternoon as "the man behind Father Ted". Would it have been that painful to have added GL's name - and to have said he *co-wrote* Ted. Writers, huh?

Ho hum. Boringly enough, the scene with the guy with the burger in his hair is in the script book, and it does say "cut from final version".

The book is more forthcoming in other matters, though, and it was edited by L&M, so it's definitely worth buying if you're a Ted fan. Careful now!

No. Sorry. You've just said "guy with burger in his hair".

I've got the giggles now.

How about "Ted, I'd love a pop tart"

Is it official yet that there will be a 2nd series?

It should be. Attachments got one before the 1st series had been shown.

Yep, deffo. Bill Bailey mentioned it in his otherwise incredibly tedious chat on the C4 website:

http://www.channel4.com/talk/pastchat.cfm?id=50032

If there's one thing to be said for the minority channels, it's their keenness to commission two series of new stuff these days.
People watching the shows tend to forget that the makers can't respond to criticisms DURING the run. A second series gives them a chance to pick up / hone / sort out.
I hope Moran and Linehan are enthused by the positive reaction BB got and really push the boat out next time...

Would it be better if it got a longer run, ie. 8 or 10 episodes?

Half of me says I want as much as possible. The other half says it would stretch them too far, quality would go down. I dunno.

Fr. Ted had long runs, didn't it? That was pretty reliable, although the last season went a bit too far down the parody/reference comedy road, and began to feel a bit lazy, and the whole thing definitely ended at the right moment. Well, I reckon.

BB also said he would dress up as Britney Spears, don't know if this means we have been deprived or saved.

Ted was always 6 eps, like BlackAdder et al.
These days, execs seem keener to give odd series lengths (Smack the Pony was 7 or 8, if I remember rightly).
I think this just makes the shows lazier, actually. It's better to commission two series of six and gauge reaction in the lull than spread the material over 12 with no chance to tweak and adjust.
Also, with long runs, you have trouble fitting a single series on to one E180 video (the comedy fan's friend...)

Wasn't the second or third series of Ted 8 or 10 episodes? Sorry to be so vague.

Ted was:

Series 1: 6 eps
Series 2: 10 eps
Christmas Special
Series 3: 8 eps

if memory serves.

There was certainly more than just 12 eps in series 1&2 together.

Stuart O is spot on.

Aye thank yow.

Is that a reference to Mr.Bagshaw (way to close to home that act).
And a little repetitive, but still good.

Arthur ASCII

what does that stand for?

Doesn't stand for anything. They amputated his legs.

(if I was disabled that would have hurt me)
Oh my God! really?!?!?

Somebody explain for her.

heheh, nice one!

whatever