The Divine Comedy

Morrissey
This Life
Breaking The Waves
the fuel protests

With you on This Life, Al.

Plus:

EastEnders
Never Mind The Buzzcocks
Ben Elton since 1990
Robbie Williams
Oliver Stone (sorry, Al!)

Well, Stone did make 'The Doors', one of the most risibly awful films ever. Natural Born Killers is a pretend post-modern mess. But JFK, Nixon, Born on the Fourth of July and Wall Street are all excellent, IMHO.

EastEnders - yep - terrible since about 1988.
An arcane choice - Jean Luc Godard's 'Weekend' - extensively written about in film criticism, beautifully made, but actually boring old tosh.
Oh yeah. Woody Allen (except 'take the Money and Run and his early stand up.) Sorry Justin!

ex girlfriend adored The Doors and reckoned you could reach drug inspired state just by listening in a darkened room Without Drugs. I did not concurr.

Divine Comedy I find pleasing, if not inspiring though.

I just find the Divine Comedy sinister and quite disturbing. I like about 3 of their songs, but the rest of their stuff makes me want to cut my ears off.

Harry Potter
Buffy The Vampire Slayer
Dead Ringers
Travis

Robbie Williams (over hyped laddish drip-pop)
Big Brother (thank 4X it's over)
ANY Soap Opera (don't watch them and don't care)
The Current BBC love-affair with Australia because of the Olympics (because the Aussies hate our guts and it's a ploy by broadcasters to get folk to tune in......to the Olympics)
Channel 4 Animation Week (because A>It is a combination of pleb shows, clips and heads, and repeats and B> C4 have shown their usual lack of scheduling wisdom by shoving most of the non-mainstream animation into graveyard slots - as usual)

Robbie Williams
Robin Williams
(repeat forever)

Big Brother (remember that? no me neither)

Travis, Mansun, Coldplay, the Stereophonics and other current pitifully dull guitar bands

All dance music

Caroline Quentin

Britney Spears

Hollyoaks

Personally I always thought the Beatles were bollocks.
Thats usually a fairly unpopular opinion.
I don't necessarily consider myself "in the right" for disliking them, though.

>Breaking The Waves

That could have been good, if it wasn't so shite...

Emily Watson is a fantastic actress, but the film itself just ended up being ridiculous and also pretty tedious.

C4 animation week? Ooof, are they reshowing IKB? Every time it's on, I miss it.

King of the Hill - excuse me, but aren't all the characters really dislikeable?

Star Wars

Come to think of it, very nearly all sci-fi.

Seinfeld
Friends
The petrol crisis
Bridget Jones
Harry Potter
Billie Piper
Westlife
Posh n Becks
Phil Jupitus
Eddie Izzard

>The Current BBC love-affair with Australia because of the Olympics (because the Aussies hate our guts and it's a ploy by broadcasters to get folk to tune in......to the Olympics)

I don't hate the British, I think they're great. I think it's the British who hate the Australians. Just coz we beat you at sport all the time - who actually cares!?

I think sport is overated myself. Especially football, whether it be soccer, Aussie Rules, Grideon or rugby.

Of course we don't hate you. We may pity you, but we don't hate you.





(I'm trying this 'controversy' thing as suggested in the Booooorrrrring thread.)

Forgot to say, This Life.

Perhaps we should start a thread about things people have mentioned on this thread as 'things everyone likes but they can't see all the fuss about' which are actually nothing of the sort.

To whit:

sci-fi. The popular consensus on sci-fi is that it is geeky rubbish. Not liking it is not a blind spot, it is a widely held view.

Seinfeld. Few have seen it, fewer care. I love it - but this is hardly a mainstream view.

Dance music - hating dance music is an opinion adopted by:
a)Musos
b)NME reading students
c)Rockers
d)soul boys/girls
e)old people
f)middle aged people
g)almost everybody else
Again, not much of a blind spot. In fact I actually think liking it (which I do) is actually an anti-blind spot, as so many people seem to dislike it.

Craig David

all of the supposed "wonder" of Garage music - especially that "song" if you can call it that, by posh spice.

manchester united - I hate them with a passion you can only dream of.

"cash in" sponsorship of of TV programs - with the "this is sponsored by us" bit running for a minute at the beginning of everything.

Region encoding for DVD discs - ok, easy to get around with a chip, but it shouldn't be there in the first place.

>Dance music - hating dance music is an opinion adopted by:
>b)NME reading students

Oh no, meleody makers much better than that now - they hate all forms of garage, whereas NME stick professional ego-tosser craig david on the front. MElody maker hates 'beats' - all the readers appear to like Blink 182 and the Bloodhound gang - controversial!
They're both a bit shit though really aren't they?

>>Dance music - hating dance music is an opinion adopted by:
>>b)NME reading students
>
>Oh no, meleody makers much better than that now - they hate all forms of garage, whereas NME stick professional ego-tosser craig david on the front. MElody maker hates 'beats' - all the readers appear to like Blink 182 and the Bloodhound gang - controversial!
>They're both a bit shit though really aren't they?

Yes. Although 'What's My Age Again' had a nice tune. I must admit I think Craig David's stuff is a bit poor. I am fortunate to be able to hear real undergroud UK garage music as I teach so many hip young people - otherwise I'd probably be moaning about it too...

Al - you're a media studies teacher: do you warn your pupils you are left wing in the first lesson? That's what ours did. He was a bit mad though...

I probably didn't quite nail down what I meant in my first posting. What we're dealing with here are things which, despite trying your level best to like them, making an effort, and so on, you still don't get it, even if the vast majority of your friends think otherwise.

Al came up with a perfect example of this: Woody Allen. Now, I love WA, and I know that Al has watched several of his movies (not just one). I think he even "doesn't mind" a couple of them (Annie Hall, Al?). But he finds the bouquets a bit much. I find that with EastEnders - a show I didn't mind too much for its first couple of years, but which quickly became such a cartoon that I couldn't abide it.

I think sci-fi is permissible if you've tried out reading or watching enough of it. I don't really know enough sci-fi to actually know if I love or hate it.

And "Dance music" - do you mean absolutely everything played at a club ever?! That would mean you hate "Groove Is In The Heart" by Deee-Lite, "Good Times" by Chic, and, by extension, anything by Kraftwerk and James Brown. Just for starters...

No - they usually work it out eventually, when I start railing against the Royal Family or something. Actually I'm not *that* left wing, I'm no Dave Spart or anything.

I do remember one amusing lesson where a lot of my students were being surprisingly narrow-minded on immigration (surprising because about 70% of them are black, and the others were all of Greek, Asian, South American descent etc.) I was gamely challenging their views when one of them went 'Actually, now I think of it my Dad was an illegal immigrant.' 'Yeah so was mine, and my aunt' etc. etc. They had a bit of a rethink after that!

>I probably didn't quite nail down what I meant in my first posting. What we're dealing with here are things which, despite trying your level best to like them, making an effort, and so on, you still don't get it, even if the vast majority of your friends think otherwise.

So Robbie Williams is still alright then? Can someone explain to me why this 'musician' is considered one of 'the cultural icon of the '90's', as opposed to 'that waste of space from that waste of space band?'

>So Robbie Williams is still alright then? Can someone explain to me why this 'musician' is considered one of 'the cultural icon of the '90's', as opposed to 'that waste of space from that waste of space band?'

Oddly enough, I didn't object to Take That, particularly. Or boy bands generally - let's face it, they're not exactly aimed at me. But RW is cynically being marketed to older, "wiser" consumers - those who listen to radio stations like Virgin (not that I do) and think The Priory's a "birrova laugh", rather than a shameful piece of shit.

God, PJ, of *course* he still counts. In fact, he might be behind the reason I started this thread in the first place.


(Oh yes, people think he's clever as well. Jesus.)

Ah, but Robbie says he's doing it for the 'kids' - a idea slightly destroyed by the fact he keeps releasing banned videos.
He might be smart, what with his 'image adaption' and everything, but he's a twat who'll do anything for fame and money. And isn't even intereasting when he does it.

sheep> > > I haven't seen IKB listed for Animation week - however some of the films have been *lumped* together into themes on different nights (a night of 1970's childrens television animation is on between 1 a.m. & 4 a.m. for goodness sake!) and the listings I have aren't complete.

Robbie Williams (again). Gets video banned (=publicity) snogs Geri Halihell (=publicity), hmmm...couldn't be a pattern emerging here.....

Mark Lamarr

I'm going to upset a few people now:

Smack the Pony.


Sorry! But IMHO it's just. Not. Funny.

Also:
Goodness Gracious Me
The Divine Comedy
Mel & Sue (I can see *why* they appeal - it just doesn't work on me)
Dr. Who
Thunderbirds

I'm not enjoying this at all - I feel like I'm raining on several parades at once...

Absolutely Fabulous
Charlie Chaplin (entire career)
The Big Lebowski
Mobile phones with interchangeable colour covers
Drawstring trousers

>I'm going to upset a few people now:
>
>Smack the Pony.
>
Actually enjoyed it when it was on, but Fiona Allen's increasingly turgid contributions to I Love The 70s and the news that Sarah Alexander is to be teenage boys' favourite seed-spilling fantasy on the next run of 11ocs is trying my patience with it.

>Goodness Gracious Me

Again, liked it to begin with, and Sanjeev Bhaskar is a funny funny man. But the last series was bewilderingly witless (a lot of shouting and tired parodies, and very few jokes).

>Mel & Sue (I can see *why* they appeal - it just doesn't work on me)

They seem nice enough, but just not really very special, comedically.

>Thunderbirds
>
If you meet anyone over 30 who claims to enjoy this now, they are lying bastards like people at the Radio Times. It is very difficult to stay awake for 50 minutes.

Can't agree with you on Divine Comedy, Ewar (I like quite a few of the singles), and I did enjoy Dr Who when a child (haven't seen any of it for a long time, though). But otherwise, top choices!

>Absolutely Fabulous

Jennifer Saunders had run out of ideas by about episode 4. Series two was one of the weakest things I've ever seen. (Series three was marginally better.)

>Charlie Chaplin (entire career)

Well, he was a very clever bloke. But unamusing as hell imho.

>Mobile phones with interchangeable colour covers
>
Can't we just say mobile phones? (At the risk of sounding like a Daily Mail columnist.)

>Dance music - hating dance music is an opinion adopted by:
>a)Musos
>b)NME reading students
>c)Rockers
>d)soul boys/girls
>e)old people
>f)middle aged people
>g)almost everybody else
>Again, not much of a blind spot. In fact I actually think liking it (which I do) is actually an anti-blind spot, as so many people seem to dislike it.
>
Have to take issue with this one. If liking dance music is more of an anti-blind spot (ie a liking for something which is widely reviled) why are the charts and airwaves chock-a-block with the stuff?

And I don't think that anything played in a club counts as dance music. Not only would this tar the enjoyably dour musings of Kraftwerk with the anti-dance brush, it could encompass almost all musical styles! They used to play the National Anthem at dances and gigs years ago, but it wasn't "God Save the Queen - Armand's Star Trunk Funkin' Mix".

>And I don't think that anything played in a club counts as dance music. Not only would this tar the enjoyably dour musings of Kraftwerk with the anti-dance brush, it could encompass almost all musical styles! They used to play the National Anthem at dances and gigs years ago, but it wasn't "God Save the Queen - Armand's Star Trunk Funkin' Mix".
>
Sure - just wanted to make absolutely sure you weren't adopting a "real music/keep music live" stance. There is a lot of terrible dance music around at the moment, but there's plenty of decent stuff too. Or are you (like me) tiring of the Ibiza Uncovered-type coverage?

Personally, I've always found the idea of a club (and come to that, radio station) that just plays one niche of music depressing. Embrace dozens of styles! Be adventurous! After all, is there anything worse than people who only listen to one narrow type of music?

>
After all, is there anything worse than people who only listen to one narrow type of music?
>
Umm, genocide? And having cigarettes but no matches or lighter.

I agree with you on the "narrowcasting" thing - radio stations that play only one kind of music, or for that matter, TV stations that have only a single type of programming are culturally impoverishing. While The Paramount Comedy channel or whatever it is might be good for repeats of classic shows the terrestrial stations might never repeat, you lose the wonderful effect you get when you see a comedy show slotted in between two worthy, serious programmes. In my formative years, this seemed to be a very important part of what comedy shows were for.

>
After all, is there anything worse than people who only listen to one narrow type of music?
>
Umm, genocide? And having cigarettes but no matches or lighter.

I agree with you on the "narrowcasting" thing - radio stations that play only one kind of music, or for that matter, TV stations that have only a single type of programming are culturally impoverishing. While The Paramount Comedy channel or whatever it is might be good for repeats of classic shows the terrestrial stations might never repeat, you lose the wonderful effect you get when you see a comedy show slotted in between two worthy, serious programmes. In my formative years, this seemed to be a very important part of what comedy shows were for.

sorry - double post

>>
>Have to take issue with this one. If liking dance music is more of an anti-blind spot (ie a liking for something which is widely reviled) why are the charts and airwaves chock-a-block with the stuff?

For the reasons you cite above - narrowcasting. You'll hear dance music on R1 and Kiss FM (if you live in London) and some of the more youth oriented commercial stations, but nowhere else. Yes some dance music is poor, but frankly, if you look back over the 1990s, the vast majority of classic stuff is dance influenced in some way. The current mainstream indie scene has become moribund, and rock (or rawk), thankfully, has died a death.
>
>And I don't think that anything played in a club counts as dance music. Not only would this tar the enjoyably dour musings of Kraftwerk with the anti-dance brush, it could encompass almost all musical styles! They used to play the National Anthem at dances and gigs years ago, but it wasn't "God Save the Queen - Armand's Star Trunk Funkin' Mix".
>
Perhaps, but to say dance music is terrible is like saying all detective novels are terrible. There is a world of difference between Agatha Christie and Raymond Chandler, just as there is a world of diference between say, Bob Marley vs. Funkstar Deluxe and Underworld.

I can say all dance music is terrible and be 'right' cos it's just a matter of opinion, however blinkered and shallow it may seem.

I like to think I have a very wide taste in music, anyway. Some days I'll listen to mid-periods Cardiac, others I'll listen to late-period Cardiacs.

>
>I like to think I have a very wide taste in music, anyway. Some days I'll listen to mid-periods Cardiac, others I'll listen to late-period Cardiacs.

We await the Radio Authority giving the green light to a franchise for Cardiacs-FM...

Having establihed myself with a vague "she's overseas" cred, I'd like to tear it all down in one fell swoop by declaring my love of things others here loathe.
I appreciate and collect kitsch items. And not just old kitsch which is cred because it has overtones of irony. (Charlies Angels t shirts - yawn, yawn. Sorry, that was the 80s for me). Current kitsch is something I adore.
Thus my imposing collection of Spice Girls merchandise. Current stocktake indicates about $1600 worth of stuff (with particular emphasis on the dolls).
Love the girls, love Robbie Williams, love Britney. For me, bad is preferable to lame.

(Also love Divine Comedy.)

Televisually, 'Friends' is a big blindspot. I've tried, but there's something about smug, petty, pretty, safely dressed twenty-somethings that I can't relate to. (Thank God).

Some days I'll listen to mid-periods Cardiac, others I'll listen to late-period Cardiacs.

"mid-periods Cardiac"????

Jesus Christ, one day I'll learn how to type, I promise.

>I can say all dance music is terrible and be 'right' cos it's just a matter of opinion, however blinkered and shallow it may seem.

Well I suppose so. Are you sure you've never liked *any* dance music? At all? Not even Pacific State by 808 State?

>I like to think I have a very wide taste in music, anyway. Some days I'll listen to mid-periods Cardiac, others I'll listen to late-period Cardiacs.

Well, a self-deprecating line in humour tops a love of dance music any day. I defer.

Come to think of it, which, as Derek and Clive would say, I do, I seem to have very fond memories of the track "Little Fluffy Clouds". More ambient, than dance, perhaps, but there's hope for me yet...

Going back to the original question:

Harry Hill
Cricket
Coldplay
Things being 'OK to like'

Pokemon. They're little plastic animals in a plastic ball, conveniently shaped to choke small children. Well, hurrah for that, then.

you bitter cow


as we all know pok�mon is the only decent cartoon show on these days.

7? 8? 9? 10 maybe....

"Actually I'm not *that* left wing, I'm no Dave Spart or anything."

Don't listen to him - he wants to infiltrate the system from within, the Trotskyite entryist...

Ewar! So much of what you say I agree with. STP was mostly cack. I have never laughed at Mel&Sue, though I can see they're nice people. GGM went off, but it was good to start with. Neil Hannon is a duff singer who thinks he's a fucking genius just because he's read a book since he left school.

You're wrong about Dr Who, but that doesn't matter...

GGM : I agree with the postings herein, the first series was good but went downhill after that.

*but*

Was that because it was so much more unusual, and thus the humour seemed fresher in the first series. Asian comedians? Surely not! And then we got used to it and thus the humour died.

I used to find Harry Hill painfully funny, but I'm not so keen on him now, tho do still appreciate the humour. Because I'm used to his style or because he's generaly gone off the boil?

I'm just a comedy junkie, after a new and more exciting fix.

1. Arman Van Helden

I'm basing this on two singles, but the music press seem to hold him up as some kind of genius, and he just isn't.

2. Gormenghast(tv version)

Huge budget, terrible script, Jonathan Rhys-Meyers apallingly bad in the lead role. Attempt to convert two enormous books into a four hour series, mistake. Ridiculously hyped by BBC.

3. The Olympics

It may well be exciting and jolly and all that stuff but I just DON'T CARE.

4. Scary Movie

The critics don't seem too keen on this, but somehow I don't think it has quite got the slagging it deserves. The Wayans clan seemed to think they were really smart by taking the piss out of Scream, seemingly missing the point that Scream was itself a parody of Horror Movies.

"4. Scary Movie

The critics don't seem too keen on this, but somehow I don't think it has quite got the slagging it deserves. The Wayans clan seemed to think they were really smart by taking the piss out of Scream, seemingly missing the point that Scream was itself a parody of Horror Movies."

Problem is, the Wayans believe that Scram was 'Intelectually' making fun of Horror films, so they did a 'gross' version, the clever boys.

OK I'll accept that GGM was probably funny at first but then they ran out of jokes and just kept repeating themselves.

And sheep, I don't think it's very "different" at all, it's about as formulaic a sketch show as you can get.

Another upsetting blind spot: The Fall. I've bought some of their records in the past and enjoyed them at the time, but the fact that I've no idea what they've released since about 1990 speaks volumes - they just don't grab me, I can't get excited about them. And yes, I realise that they've been hugely influential on alot of the music I love, and that loving Pavement but not The Fall should really be punished, but...well..sorry. Blind spot.

I meant different in as much as it was Asian comedians often taking the piss out of themselves, rather than having a fat Northern man do it in a much more unpleasant way.

I don't mind a formulaic sketch show if the material has enough of a twist to be a bit different, which is how the radio series came across, and then the first TV series (which largely used most of the radio material).

Ewar - re: The Fall. I agree. I like a couple of their records but just don't understand their significance in the whole scheme of things. Similarly The Jesus and Mary Chain. Couple of good singles here and there but what is all the fuss about?

Similarly The Jesus and Mary Chain. Couple of good singles here and there but what is all the fuss about?

Their debut album Psychocandy burst open pop like an over-ripe banana under a mallet. The sweet Beach Boys style harmonies coupled with the inpenetrable feedback and rock sensibilty proved highly influential. Any band the Pixies deemed worthy to cover has to be acknowledged!

>Similarly The Jesus and Mary Chain. Couple of good singles here and there but what is all the fuss about?
>
>Their debut album Psychocandy burst open pop like an over-ripe banana under a mallet. The sweet Beach Boys style harmonies coupled with the inpenetrable feedback and rock sensibilty proved highly influential. Any band the Pixies deemed worthy to cover has to be acknowledged!
>
>
Sorry. Loved the Beach Boys, loved The Pixies, but there's a bit too much of the inpenetreable feedback and not enough of the harmonies for my liking. 'Reverence' was quite good though. And that one they did with Mazzy Star (Never Understand?)

They are self-important twats in interview mind...

"Sometimes Always" was a duet with Hope Sandoval of Mazzy Star (1994). "Never Understand" was an early, tune-free single that was on Psychocandy (1985).

I think Psychocandy is completely over-rated (if it's so influential, how come they abandoned the style themselves?) But "Darklands" is a great album which sounds nothing like its predecesssor, and "Automatic" is mostly great driving music. Don't bother with the rest.

JAMC - Reverence is a great single, and Far Gone & Out extremely good. But frankly, Pixies' cover of Head On beats the pants off the original. So there.

The Fall are ok.

I agree with all of the above, if that's possible. Psychocandy blew my tiny little mind when it came out, but I couldn't enjoy it now. Darklands still makes me tingle. And:

> But frankly, Pixies' cover of Head On beats the pants off the original. So there.

Couldn't agree more.

>
>The Fall are ok.

Exactly my point. They're *OK*. But that's all.

>...and "Automatic" is mostly great driving music. Don't bother with the rest.

The best thing about Automatic (and this only works if you have it on cassette) is putting it on and trying to guess which track it is.

i don't know what I'm talking about.

I know what you mean, but that's what I meant. Unless you meant something different.

Yes, I knew you would know what I meant, so I didn't bother to expand more, as I knew you meant it too.
In fact, you used to be able to play the same game with the brothers Reid.
"Which one are you then?"

A bloke I was at school with said 'Debaser' was a rip-off of 'Smells Like Teen Spirit'.

I killed him.

Is that what you're in for?

Prisoner No. 93A234
Simon Adebisi
Convicted May 2, 1993

Murder In The First Degree

Sentence: Life Imprisonment Without The Possibility Of Parole

Really? My word.

I'm gonna get you Adebisi.

OK boss.

(snigger)

I'll sort both of you out when the new series starts!