However, I can't wait for Crossroads to come back, especially if it's as bad as it used to be. 17m viewers though? That's pretty amazing.


Anyone got any vodka?

NO!! NOOO!!! HOW DAAAAARE THEY!

The rotten bastards! How dare they say that Prisoner is worse than frigging Minipops! And I don't know how Zoe "I'm famous for shagging that fat ugly bloke from the Housemartins" Ball dares to slag it off.

Bah.

> However, I can't wait for Crossroads to come back, especially if it's as bad as it used to be. 17m viewers though? That's pretty amazing.
>
Jane Rossington and Kathy Staff (Doris Luke)will be in it apparently.

Did you catch the HTV version or Mr and Mrs?

I love this kind of thing. Abitrariness rocks.

>NO!! NOOO!!! HOW DAAAAARE THEY!
>
> The rotten bastards! How dare they say that Prisoner is worse than frigging Minipops! And I don't know how Zoe "I'm famous for shagging that fat ugly bloke from the Housemartins" Ball dares to slag it off.
>
>Bah.

I'm marvelling at how much "This MOrning" they'ev got in there. Can't wait to see which of my old colleagues they're going to interview about Madeley's Ali G impersonation...

It's a miracle I wasn't 100 Worst TV Moments... I was on the edge of my seat when they showed "Topless Darts at the Ballet" in the Live TV bit - I was one of the extras, sat in the front row in a dinner suit applauding vigorously... If they'd taken the next couple of shots after the ballerina, who was actually the runner, Janet...

Oh wow!

I am in the presence of greatness!

Did you keep the bunny on the news during the week after Diana took that nasty wrong turning? I didn't have it then, but I became a major fan a few months after, especially Tiffany's Big City Tips. She was classy.

Are you the Simon Harries that works/used to work on LNN?

I wish Rusty the Bouncing Midget was on BBC2, it would certainly liven it up a bit! And you're right, it's about 30% This Morning isn't it? Tragic to see what a stable woman she once was. *shakes head* If someone streaked on the show now she'd probably start shrieking in a gin soaked fashion, and start beating Richard with one of the set ornaments!

Richard Madeley on regional TV, he *IS* Alan Partridge!! "It's Stadus Quo, gear fab!".

Also, very ironic that he was interviewing 'Shakey'.

Mmmmmmmm. sports casual.

Oh My Sweet Lord. Madeley has gone up in my estimation, I'm surprised Shakes didn't divorce him!

It was uncannily Partridgey.

But - let's be honest - his Ali G impression isn't that bad. I think he used it as a cover to say the things he's always secretly thinking, e.g. about ugly girls getting makeovers.

OK, 'Heil Honey I'm Home' - that's another Corpses hoax, right? I mean, that wasn't really a series that got made, was it?
An American Hitler living next to a Jewish family. It almost makes the 'Pub Landlord' article look tasteful.

And about Shakes being a lesbian?

He was so Alan Partridge that it actually freaked me out a bit! His hair, speech, clothes, attitude! He should sue Coogans arse off!

>OK, 'Heil Honey I'm Home' - that's another Corpses hoax, right?

I was under the impression that I'd hallucinated that! It was just....appalling.

He will keep calling Judy a lesbian.

He did it last week in fact.

Suiii, there's a *chance* at least!

It was the way he kept flatly contradicting Shakey (the real Shakey I mean.) Extreme Alan. "You're known for being very old fashioned" ... "No I'm not"... "Yes you are."

Madeley's Ali G impersanation shouldn't have been a number one - it was a fantstic performance by the man richard. Surely it doesn't appeal to the audience that This Morning, and all daytime tv, was originally aimed at. There were worse TV moments, but isn't there always.
I'm convinced if Zoe Ball wasn't presented, she'd feature heavily in a poll such as this. "Here's Zoe on the Priory, talking with a lisp - very funny Zoe." Stupid cow. And what about "Here's Jamie Theakston getting angry about something unimportant." But i suppose that leads us back to Madeley.
Ah, the fickle world of TV

"No I'm sorry you are, you're in character" "No, I'm not" "You don't really shake much at all do you?"

And John, I wouldn't touch her with yours, not now! She used to be the Queen of Daytime, but now she's a shambling, gin addicted wreck!

>Are you the Simon Harries that works/used to work on LNN?

No, he's a Harris and about 15-20years older... and I'm not related to James Harries, the antique expert kid in the bow-tie who was on Wogan in the 80's, who's about 10 years younger...

I thought Live TV was great, and I had the best amazing time working there, but after 18 months (and the dictum from above that I had to produce "Handy Hunks") I chucked it in and went to This Morning.

The best sport to be had was watching Kelvin bursting out of his office screaming, "Oh my god, that was the biggest load of crap I've ever seen, who made it? Right, you're fired!" This happened at least once per week. I used to produce "Pet Squad", which by coincidence was presented by Dominic Green whom I knew from Bournemouth Uni's Media course, and we were both very proud of a review we had for it in "Time Out" (I know Time Out reviews don't count for much around SOTCAA, but the reviewer was obviously on our wavelength) which went something like, "there's more irony in this show than Juvenal could shove up his arse at the most opulent of Roman orgies..." When Kelvin found out about it, he snarled, "Ironic? It better not be bloody ironic? What do you mean ironic?!"

Dom and I used to try and out-cheese each other when writing or filming every single link, and our out-takes were most amusing... The number of times I had him appearing from behind a bush while intoning words like, "Deep in the heart of Somerset you'll find the Sunny Lodge Animal Sanctuary..."

"now she's a shambling, gin addicted wreck!"

That's this forum shut down then isn't it?
So he steals the drink to keep her addiction going then?

Well that's always been our theory ('Us' being me and John). He probably sells his arse on Hampstead Heath too!

Surely you can't keep making comments like that? What will the lawyers say?

That's nothing really.

You should hear our late night conversations.

No, he really shouldn't. His poor head would implode!

You're probably right.

For Our Ears Only.

Isn't this late night enough for you then? Come on, spit it out man!

There were those rumours about J*** T***** and what he was doing with that sea bass on the This Morning set to make it 'salted'

Anything more comcrete - let's bring this evil program down to its knees

You can check out http://www.facelink.com/-wow- for evidence of D* C**** S*****s weekend activities!

I couldn't believe it when I read that Stuart Maconie wrote the script! His contributions were really funny and showed him back on form (remember the Graveyard Shift) but either Zoe was ruining the lines or they really were shit links. I cringed at many of them.

Obviously it has to be compared to The Late Show special 'TV Hell'(BBC2 31/08/92) which had a typically well-balanced approach and didn't use crap irony all the time. That was, in truth, a response to C4's 'TV Heaven' at the time (BBC refused to supply programmes) so it seems odd that C4 should throw a repost back eight years down the line which used the same clips. Those were 'Open Air'(70's free speech), Harold Wilson, Club X, handcuffed Jonothan Ross, 'BOOMPH with Becker', Pan's People and 'Minipops'. Incidentally why were the Minipops clips off such a shit tape? When 'TV Hell' used the same sections in 92 they were top quality? What happened? Has some paedophile broken into the C4 archive?

As ever these TV compilations provide lots of clips you wouldn't find elsewhere ('Club X', 'OTT', 'Heil! Honey' - which I remember - and of course James Harries on 'Wogan') but the show totally failed to set an agenda. Were those two 'Juke Box Jury' clips really hellish? No - they were triumphant examples of what TV is capable of:the unexpected.

Is Iggy Pop really deserving of an entry? On the original showing (which I have) he whips his cock out just *after* the programme fades out. And if you think that's shocking then you obviously haven't seen live videos of him in the 1970s.

'The Comedians' they dubbed "the now unacceptable face of new comedy on television". So how the hell do you explain all those cable repeats?

Jeremy Paxman at the Berlin Wall. What's the problem? He handled it really well - "I was only obeying orders" is a *fantastic* line to come up with in that situation.

Stone Roses on 'Late Show' - boring as well, particularly in light of stories that Squire sabotaged it deliberately.

I don't really understand 'The Word' being there either. Obviously it was horrible, but they knew precisely what they were doing - Charlie Parsons has gone on record to say that it was an intentional progression downhill. Yoof meets post-modernism or something. L7 whipping a tampon out isn't hell either. They just looked silly. That show had an audience who received it in the way it was intended.

But do we need so much of an explanation either, as though to crowbar in a new meaning behind shows which existed totally seperate? Do we really need a caption saying "Roger looks around for help"? Nope.

So, no criteria behind it as far as I could tell - other than to plug 'Crossroads'. Obviously next year it will return with a huge budget and have the new challenge of being good - it was a stupid decision to recommission it.

But they are safe in the knowledge that 'Crossroads 2K' cannot possibly be any worse than the original.......can it?

Yes, All the clips seemed to be really bad quality - even recent ones (Eldorado looked shocking) Why was that. And why could we see Kieth Chegwin? All of him?
Mind your language - never seen it, but i liked the writer's justification for it - that's what foreigners are like.
Gary Bushell's a twat though isn't he? Was that why they had him on?

Suiii - all very good - i see a news flash appearing on TV tomorrow morning: "Down with this sick filth."
That's not about crossroads - This morning obviously.

Oh, This Morning right. Got confused there, John just made me cry!

>Yes, All the clips seemed to be really bad quality - even recent ones (Eldorado looked shocking) Why was that. And why could we see Kieth Chegwin? All of him?

They said on air that Chegwin would not clear clips. His voice and newspaper articles were allowed.

I have no idea about the quality. I have a better tape of Julian Clary's "fisting" comment than the source they used. In fact it was probably a good copy in the first place but VHS never holds up on TV.


>Mind your language - never seen it, but i liked the writer's justification for it - that's what foreigners are like.

I will defend 'Love Thy Neighbour' until the day I die. There is no difference between that and 'Til Death Us Do Part'. Vince Powell may not be Johnny Speight's equal, but he does know how to write a half-decent sitcom. On the other hand, I wouldn't like to pass judgement on 'Mind Your Language' until I've seen a full episode.

>Gary Bushell's a twat though isn't he? Was that why they had him on?

He's a (shit) TV critic who "likes a bidduvalaff". That's why he was on.

Interesting how the "cheesy racism" issue wss handled. They showed the Goodies Minstrel thing but explictly labelled it as "The Goodies make fun of the Minstrels" or whatever. Meanwhile, other shows which are obviously making fun of racism like "Curry and Chips" are criticised on the basis that (according to Meera Syhal) "the racist bits are the bits that they remembered in the playground".
This is on a par with the Corpses' argument that the Pub Landlord encourages xenophobia - because some people take the views of the characters seriously, the shows are to blame. Censorship by idiocy, in other words.

>I will defend 'Love Thy Neighbour' until the day I die. There is no difference between that and 'Til Death Us Do Part'.

I can't help but think your saying that just for shock effect or something. In terms of quality, regardless of subject matter, 'Love Thy Neighbour' is not even close to 'Til Death...' It was absolutely deathly unfunny throughout and also very pedestrian, obvious and tired from day one, with terrible non-jokes and lame performances, whereas 'Til Death...' was frequently shockingly good and could always rely on a brilliant central performance to lift things up when they sagged. You might as well compare 'Last of the Summer Wine' with 'Fawlty Towers.'

>I can't help but think your saying that just for shock effect or something.

I just find it badly misrepresented. They were on Uk Gold about 5 years ago and I kept a few. I don't tape things for shock value either.

It was a mainstream early 70s suburban sitcom. Obviously it had lame jokes, but I don't see how Vince Powell's actual treatment of racial harmony is any different, bar the political debates of 'Til Death'. The intention is much the same.

Stuff that springs to mind:

1) Not many clips of Zoe Ball and Mark Little on the Big Breakfast, were there?

2) Mr & Mrs - the monocled quizmaster was the frightening HTV local personality Alan Taylor.

3) A lot of the clips weren't "hellish" anyway - agree that TV Hell did a much better job.

4) Madeley as Ali G was a bit boring, really.

5) When are Adam & Joe coming back? Now, their survey of Channel 4 highlights at New Year 1997/98 was much more incisive than this. And their clips of Club X - like the woman who wrote a play in 45 minutes - were priceless.

6) Thing that always intrigued me about Mind Your Language was just how marvellous the students' grasp of English was when they weren't in a classroom. (Fact: This remains ITV's most successful sitcom of all-time of 21 million viewers per week at its peak.)

7) Arabella Weir had nothing of value to say. As usual.

>They showed the Goodies Minstrel thing but explictly labelled it as "The Goodies make fun of the Minstrels" or whatever.

I think, albeit briefly, they got that across in the way it was intended. If they had let it run on a bit more, you would have heard TBT's naive justification for the Minstrels, which I'll paraphrase:

BO:Why can't we have...I dunno, The White and White Minstrels?

TBT:Because they always use make up on TV. They tried a series without make up and it got half the audience. Obviously all the black people had switched off.

At least we got "Mammy ob duh free".

>Meanwhile, other shows which are obviously making fun of racism like "Curry and Chips" are criticised on the basis that (according to Meera Syhal) "the racist bits are the bits that they remembered in the playground".

I'm not going to defend 'Curry & Chips' without seeing it or even try to defend it. Syall's comment was valid, but I don't think kids always interpret TV in the way it was intended.

I don't know. I find the racism debate a bit of a conversational dead end, in all honesty.

>This is on a par with the Corpses' argument that the Pub Landlord encourages xenophobia - because some people take the views of the characters seriously, the shows are to blame. Censorship by idiocy, in other words.

RE: tape quality

C4 and/or the original producers refused to clear 'Minipops' owing to the recent tabloid paedophile storm. The original tapes do indeed still exist and have been used on several other programmes in recent years.

The Bee Gees have blocked the Clive Anderson footage. As for Clary, I have no idea.

Presumably, the better quality but still noticeably off-VHS clips of Eldorado and Robinson Crusoe are involved in similar wrangles.

And I was truly shocked that so many people loathe Animal Quackers.

RE: Maconie;s comments on 'Out Of Town' - never a truer word spoken.

I love the Bee-Gees comment (don't know which one) to Clive Anderson: "You're the tosser pal." Yeah, you show him. Although why the last one felt he had to copy his brothers i don't know - has he done that all his life?
Lucky he didn't copy the one that died - did i just say that out loud?

>C4 and/or the original producers refused to clear 'Minipops' owing to the recent tabloid paedophile storm.

My local newsagents had a sellthru video bin with some copies of a VHS release of minipops in it last year. They'd all gone within a week!

>RE: Maconie;s comments on 'Out Of Town' - >never a truer word spoken.

What was said? I wish I'd seen this programme now, but I always avoid such "100 worst / 100 best" shows. If it's the Out of Town with Jack Hargreaves, I always thought it was wonderful, in a regional TV fascinating sort of way. Country films, educational, nostaligc, never pretentious.

Did I miss something then?

Or was "Out of Town" some 70's sitcom about a Pakistani family living next door to a council house full of National Front supporters?

>My local newsagents had a sellthru video bin with some copies of a VHS release of minipops in it last year. They'd all gone within a week!

And many second hand record dealers I know are terrified how quickly the LPs sell out - it's as though they can sniff them out.

>>RE: Maconie;s comments on 'Out Of Town' - >never a truer word spoken.

If we are on about Jack Hargreaves, then I'll speak up for him. He was fantastically funny in a bizarrely laconic way - I have the 'Out Of Town' audio tape which I've been known to play at parties. My favourite track is 'Dace'.

>>RE: Maconie;s comments on 'Out Of Town' - >never a truer word spoken.

Someone I spoke to recently who worked for Southern in the 1970s cattily remarked that the only reason Jack Hargreaves presented Out Of Town and How? for so long was partly due to the fact he was Deputy Controller of Programmes at Southern for many years.

Personally I thought Out Of Town was great. It was original. How often can you link that word to a programme?

At which point (apart from in its later years on Channel 4) was Out Of Town actually networked? Or was it only part-networked?

Out Of Town certainly showed up in Granada, as I have many childhood memories of the sort of stultifying boredom described by Mr Maconie.

But what's this? An _album_???

I'm sure everyone knows this story, but....

when Out of Town was shown on Channel 4 in its early years, one of the continuity announcers had worked out his pre-programme intro as "And now, let's join Jack Hargreaves, that old countryman, for Out of Town." However, he actually had several seconds less airtime before they cut to the actual programme than he had calculated, so viewers heard him apparently say "And now, let's join Jack Hargreaves, that old cunt."

About VHS (or less than VHS quality) clips in 100 Greatest... blah di blah, this is probably due to the legal principle whereby you can show clips of a programme even if you haven't cleared the copyright so long as it's in the context of 'criticism or review', which this was. But all the same the broadcaster isn't under any obligation to supply the production company with a broadcast quality copy of the tape, so old VHS off-airs are used to get round this.

And though I haven't seen the clips in question I assume if the original programme makers weren't keen to clear the footage then the producers got round it that way.

About VHS (or less than VHS quality) clips in 100 Greatest... blah di blah, this is probably due to the legal principle whereby you can show clips of a programme even if you haven't cleared the copyright so long as it's in the context of 'criticism or review', which this was. But all the same the broadcaster isn't under any obligation to supply the production company with a broadcast quality copy of the tape, so old VHS off-airs are used to get round this.

And though I haven't seen the clips in question I assume if the original programme makers weren't keen to clear the footage then the producers got round it that way.

Ofcourse, but it was curious as to why so much from 1992's TV HELL seemed to be used as the source tape! That's cheap!

'Out of Town with Jack Hargreaves' is a tape I was given about three years ago. It has a lovely cover of Jack fishing, with 8 extended anecdotes on different types of fish. He was capable of astonishing imagery - "the Dace tastes like burnt cotton wool".

Has anyone ever investigated that claim to see if it is true?

>when Out of Town was shown on Channel 4 in its early years, one of the continuity announcers had worked out his pre-programme intro as "And now, let's join Jack Hargreaves, that old countryman, for Out of Town." However, he actually had several seconds less airtime before they cut to the actual programme than he had calculated, so viewers heard him apparently say "And now, let's join Jack Hargreaves, that old cunt."

The announcer in question is David Stranks, who speaks very proudly of being the first person ever to swear on Channel Four, because of this incident, also because he jumped forward in his chair crying "Shit!" realising too late that he hadn't noticed his cue light and not spoken on time. I know this because he was my senior producer until two months ago at "Network of the World".

I must email him this discussion, because he always tell the "Out of Town" story wrongly. He says he was announcing an old Southern show called "Out of Country" and was cut off in mid-stream, and I thought he was making it up...

After leaving Channel Four, he went on to produce "Videotech" and "Movies, Games and Videos" for Capricorn TV. These days, his love of cigarettes and alcohol have made him sound more like John Hurt...