Bollocks
Jim Yoakum doesn't
I think that's all a load of arse.
Just look at The Simpsons and Frasier for two prime examples of just how well they do understand it.
>Just look at The Simpsons and Frasier for two prime examples of just how well they do understand it.
Frasier is comedy?
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>>Just look at The Simpsons and Frasier for two prime examples of just how well they do understand it.
>
>Frasier is comedy?
I was thinking exactly the same thing.
Mind you Stan Freberg was a very funny American comedian. Apparently he went on to be an advertising man.
Forgot to use my red name - DAMN IT ALL!!!
Trouble is, they're lied to by TV and movies. They expect the Brits to be stuffy and humourless, and they get miffed when they get ripped apart when they come here.
>
>Frasier is comedy?
>
Exquisite comedy. A joy in every respect.
I like RB more by the second.
>Trouble is, they're lied to by TV and movies. They expect the Brits to be stuffy and humourless, and they get miffed when they get ripped apart when they come here.
Isn't it amazing how liberal and open-minded British people spout the most amazing nonsense when it comes to America?
Funny how the British have no concept of irony existing in America.
Someone told me that Babes In The Wood (with Denise Van Outen) is doing well in America.
*covers head in hands as though deeply wounded, the true horror of what has just occurred to him causes him so much mental pain that it's like having a huge knife ripped into his cranium*
PLEASE don't mention Are You Being Served.
Benny Hill is very popular in America.
The mahjority of High School students (think lower 6th) have to have it explained painstakingly.
Yes. It *is* like rain on your wedding day.
>Benny Hill is very popular in America.
>
So is Seinfeld. The defence rests.
>The mahjority of High School students (think lower 6th) have to have it explained painstakingly.
What Benny Hill or irony? BTW UK 6th formers don't understand irony too well either.
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>Yes. It *is* like rain on your wedding day.
But is it like a free ride when you've already paid?
>What Benny Hill or irony? BTW UK 6th formers don't understand irony too well either.
Irony.
And I resent that one.
>>Yes. It *is* like rain on your wedding day.
>But is it like a free ride when you've already paid?
Or a death row pardon ten minutes too late?
What that UK 6th formers don't understand irony too well? Well, they don't. I have to try and teach them what it is in English Lit. A lot of them take time to get it. I'm not trying to score a cheap point here. I didn't get it straight away when I was their age. Only Jon was a genius at 17. And he had some very good beer. Or was it shandy?
Where are you teaching? And what sort of set is it?
** For those like Ewar who regard me as a stuck up schoolgirl who talks only about herself, here's a nice little piece to lampoon me with. To everyone else, I'm the only example i can think of at the moment...**
I for one had some grasp of irony by the age of 15, and at 13 could tell that it was "like sarcasm but different". A large number of those i associated with could too, or at least by 16 could point to it.
Have you tried singing 'Ironic' at them?
Yeah, they have some grasp of it, and a lot of them appreciate it in writing, and TV without being able to fully explain it. I just think that we assume in the UK that we have irony in the genes. Americans are more naive/less cynical than Brits (delete as applicable) and I think that gets confused with a lack of understanding of irony. But I don't believe shows like The Simpsons, Seinfeld or Frasier would be such big hits if the Yanks couldn't grasp irony.
I could try singing 'Ironic' but they'd probably beat me up. And justly so...
Yeah, that's what it boils down to. Brits are just more cynical in every sense.
Take me for example. I'm downright miserable.
It's like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a screwdriver.
I have the perfect defence for the Yorkshire Ripper but it's too late now.
"But I thought they were nails, Your Honour!"
From Radio Active, c.1980: Angus Deayton reads a newsflash...
"Peter Sutcliffe, the Yorkshire Ripper, has escaped from Parkhust Prison.
"Police are looking for a man with a Geordie accent." (Huge audience laugh.)
Tom Lehrer, the world's greatest ever comic songwriter, is American. How ironic is that?
...not at all...?
If Americans understand comedy, explain why Suddenly Susan is so popular.
If we understand it better explain the popularity of the following over the years:
Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em
Duty Free
Benny Hill (it started here of course!)
Little and Large
Keeping Up Appeances
2.4 Children
One word: Plebs.
Right, so at the risk of being a wishy-washy liberal (a risk I seem to undertake on a pretty regular basis) we seem to be approaching the only possible conclusion that America and the UK produce sizeable numbers of idiots who laugh at crap.
*long pause*
Yes, that's totally right.
Yeah.
was that a menopause?!?!?!?!
you see, us english don't understand comedy either!
Was what a menopause, sorry?
...are you *sure* you haven't got this place mixed up with the cakeshop?
you had a long pause!
sheesh!
if i have to explain it, it's just NOT funny.
cakeshop?
>If we understand it better explain the popularity of the following over the years:
>
>Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em
Because it was brilliant?
>>If we understand it better explain the popularity of the following over the years:
>>
>>Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em
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>Because it was brilliant?
No, that *definitely* wasn't the reason.
>>>If we understand it better explain the popularity of the following over the years:
>>>
>>>Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em
>>
>>Because it was brilliant?
>
>No, that *definitely* wasn't the reason.
<house collapses>
Ooooooooooooohhhhhh!
Someone very rubbish - I think it was Bonio out of U2 - once opined that America was the world's most incredibly open, trusting people being taken advantage of by the world's most cynical, corrupt system.
For once he talk sense...
Irony requires distance from a subject, intellectual, emotional or simply cynical. The open, accepting, nature of American society (the same nature that enabled it to become a melting pot of idealistic cultural rejects in the first place) does not encourage irony.
The examples of ironic humour so far quoted come from High-Brow, Anglo / Europhile American culture. They are the exception, not the rule.
Think how dull the film "Quiz Show" is. It's not shocking to a European audience that TV might lie. It was clearly an Oscar-deserving revelation to the Yanks.
Come to think of it, what was so shocking about "All The President's Men"? Great film, but Politicians Will Do Anything To Get Re-Elected? Give me a break. Weren't we all born knowing that?
>The examples of ironic humour so far quoted come from High-Brow, Anglo / >Europhile American culture. They are the exception, not the rule.
Hmm. I have difficulty with sweeping generalisations regarding national characteristics, particularly when it comes to Brits talking about Yanks. See, I'm married to an American and have several American friends. Now, they might just be very quick learners (picking it up on the Piccadilly Line in from Heathrow, perhaps) but it certainly seems like they're all fully endowed with a sense of the ironic.
IME, New Yorkers in particular (oops, here I go with the sweeping generalisations) are positively dripping with sardonic wit - now, granted, NYC isn't much like the rest of the States, but it's not remotely European in its outlook either.
Of course, I have a skewed view of these things because all the Americans I know tend to be well-read college-graduates - perhaps not the demographic we're talking about.
>Great film, but Politicians Will Do Anything To Get Re-Elected? Give me a break. >Weren't we all born knowing that?
Well, the British electorate certainly seemed to be trusting and uncynical enough to give Lady T another term 12 months after a needless conflict in the South Atlantic boosted her popularity (well, that Michael Foot was *awfully* shabby, wasn't he?).
Maybe I'll buy the 'innately more naive and trusting' line to a limited extent; I'll be more convinced the day I actually meet an American who fits this stereotype.
The Simpsons. Garry Shandling/Larry Sanders. Swingers. Cheers. The Producers. The Marx Brothers. Seinfeld. Happiness. Woody Allen. Frasier. Spinal Tap.
How long would you like this list to be, exactly?
Re Unruly Butler's comments. I was going to write a lengthy posting showing what a load of rubbish your comments were, but Mike J and Justin have done it for me. Ah well.
>Think how dull the film "Quiz Show" is. It's not shocking to a European audience that TV might lie. It was clearly an Oscar-deserving revelation to the Yanks.
Who says it's a dull film??? I was riveted to the screen. [In case you are American, I don't mean that literally.]
Here's a funny thing: the film is about a corruption scandal involving the NBC network. It was recently shown on US TV...on the rival ABC Network. Now does that prove network execs have a sense of humour or what?
"Only Jon was a genius at 17."
Thanks for that, Al! I wish I'd looked at this strand earlier!
Irony is dead. The future belongs to weak sarcasm.
The other problem is that lots of people now use the word 'ironic' as synonymous with 'incongruous'(Alanis Morrissette, for example), which it isn't, and this is so widespread that we are beginning to see a shift in meaning.
A similar thing happened with the phrase "beg the question", which is now widely believed to mean the opposite of what it originally meant. However the original meaning is more valuable, so I continue to use it and do not recognise the variant use, except as an error.
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>A similar thing happened with the phrase "beg the question", which is now widely believed to mean the opposite of what it originally meant. However the original meaning is more valuable, so I continue to use it and do not recognise the variant use, except as an error.
Huh? Please explain. I thought I'd only ever been aware of one meaning of that phrase. What if I've been using the wrong one all these years? The shame of it! How would I be able to face my family/friends/anyone ever again?
"Beg the question" is the English translation of some Latin phrase that I don't know, but the correct meaning is NOT "raise the question" but "fail to address the question". It does NOT have a phrase attached to the end of it.
Here is the correct use:
A: "Socialism destroys freedom because socialist governments have to curtail liberty".
B: "But that's just begging the question".
B correctly accuses A of begging the question because A just assumes that socialism is incompatible with liberty, they never argue for it. They present it as an argument, but the argument goes "X, therefore X". Which, in the absence of a reason for believing X, we have no reason to believe.
Most born-again Christian propaganda consists of nothing but question-begging arguments, on and on, for hundreds of pages.
On second thoughts, I'm not sure that is an example of quetsion-begging. But this definitely is:
A: Materialism cannot be true because humans are not merely physical systems.
B: That is just begging the question.
[because materialism argues that humans can be understood as physical systems.]
Oh, Americans do understand comedy, btw.
Thanks, Jon.
I have indeed been using that phrase in entirely the wrong context. I'm so ashamed.
I don't know what else to say now. I think I might just go and contemplate the worthiness of my existance in the light of this bombshell... Oh no, is that using mixed metaphors? How can I be sure of the grammatical correctness of anything I say ever again? How can I be sure of anything? My belief system is shattered.
Jon strikes again! Next week, Jon undermines our faith in Newton's Laws of Motion, with hilarious consequences!
Grrrr.