Week Ending (or The News Huddlines, as it's now called, a case of Oedipal parent-slaying if ever there was) was exciting to write one liners for, for me, as a 17 year old. It meant people who had been in The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy were reading out my words on Radio 4, a heady (and yes, nerdily sad) thing for a sixth former and obsessed comedy fan to do. That was before I even knew Week Ending was the comedy YTS scheme - I just sent off a few jokes and they got used. It encouraged me to do more. I wrote six different sitcom pilots before I even got a meeting with a producer, and then a further four before I got pilot show made - which was then of course rejected. But, like a dog, I slogged on. Another pilot made - and rejected. A few dribbles on TV here and there. But last year BBC Wales gave me and another writer a sitcom and said "Go away and write it" and now we've got a second series. Shame it had to be about the National Assembly of Wales and was toe-curlingly badly acted.
But what I'm getting at behind all this rags-to-riches feelgood self-promotion balls, is that, in BBC comedy, you do have to serve a kind of apprenticeship, just to get your voice heard. Justin, you shouldn't have thrown in the towel just cos Radio 4 mucked you around a bit. Is this sounding too evangelistic? I'll shut up now.

>...you shouldn't have thrown in the towel just cos Radio 4 mucked you around a bit.

I kept it brief for fear of self-indulgence. What I also meant to say was that every other idea we submitted (and we sent another half-dozen scripts over a two year period following our pilot's cancellation) was more-or-less ignored. The final straw - and I appreciate this is obviously not the BBC's fault - came when I entered Channel 4's sitcom-writing competition in 1997, heard nothing for six months, and was sent a letter by a red-faced script associate at Channel 4 who wrote me a three-line letter apologising for the delay in replying, but said that my entry had been "filed in the wrong box".

I still write bits and pieces. Maybe one day, I'll send something else in, and your experience sounds encouraging, Mark. But for the moment, I'm happy to write for my own enjoyment (if that doesn't sound too disingenuous). But I'm not sure whether I've lost interest because I'm not a "true" comedy writer, or whether it's because I've been put off.

One more thing: Mark - is your writing partner called James, by any chance?


Is this sounding too evangelistic? I'll shut up now.

No, he's called Cai.

I identify with the feeling of frustration you get in throwing scripts against the brick wall of the comedy establishment. But's all I can do as I'm not a stand-up and have no real interest in that form. I was lucky cos I was just a kid when my first stuff got accepted. Then - imagine being 18 years old and receiving a letter asking you to submit stuff to Alas Smith & Jones (as it was called then). I sent in a small hill of material and got one one-liner in one series and another in the next. TV sitcom writing fame will be just around the corner, I thought, in my youthful idiocy. Ten years later and I've got a sitcom on Radio bleeding Wales. I'm not complaining too much though, because it will make the suits in the BBC look a tad more seriously at my next idea - the one I realy want to do.

Of course, one reason why it's taken so long to get anywhere might be because I'm not all that good.

I'd reccommed writing for Huddlines though. Me and a friend used to write jokes for it just to get Roy Hudd to say certain words that we liked like *zombie*, *flies* or *trilby*.

>Of course, one reason why it's taken so long to get anywhere might be because I'm not all that good.
>
That thought has crossed my mind many a time as well...(about me, not you!)

>I'd reccommed writing for Huddlines though. Me and a friend used to write jokes for it just to get Roy Hudd to say certain words that we liked like *zombie*, *flies* or *trilby*.

Actually, I sort of like Huddlines, in a way. It's unpretentious, and unlike Week Ending, at least it tries to make the audience laugh. And succeeds. (Listen to the audience reaction - most radio shows would kill to get that sort of response.)

What kind of stuff do you write?

Erm. Well, at the moment I have a sitcom about three-quarters finished, in two versions, one for radio, one for TV, as I can't decide which one to plump for. It's quite a traditional structure, really - I fancied trying to go for the discipline of writing something pre-watershed.

I've tried to write a couple of sitcoms in the past, but they've usually been a bit ambitious for a pilot (maybe this is why they've been turned down, of course, although I don't know!). I've tried to write a few sketch show-type things, most of which I wouldn't trumpet, to be honest.

I have an idea for a book as well, although I'd rather not go into detail at the moment, partly because the idea isn't quite right.

And there's the odd bitter, twisted rant I post on here (Alison Graham, the BBC1 and BBC2 Autumn highlights, etc.). Probably nothing special, and certainly not for mass appeal, but I enjoy myself. Anyway....thanks for asking, Mark. I understand BBC Radio Wales are commissioning a bit more comedy these days, aren't they?
(Well, more than they were, at any rate.)

They are indeed and this is how I find myself working on series two of this sitcom right now. It's definitely worth a shot.

Most of my previous sitcom ideas have been very high-concept and been met with polite bemusement, or rather, the producer I was working with got the idea, but was pretty sure Radio 4 would think the audiences wouldn't (if that makes sense)

Interestingly, I went to a comedy seminar at BBC Manchester a few weeks ago and Helen Boaden (sp?) the Radio 4 controller assured as all that Radio 4 audiences *don't like surrealism* - a pronouncement met with horror by a lot of the people present.

Might be a new thread in that.....*Radio 4 is anti-surrealism" ?

Radio 4 is anti-surrealism? Well, that doesn't surprise me, in many ways - there's an awful lot of those deathly half-hours labelled "comedy-dramas". You know when someone's said something intentionally amusing because the next speaker responds with a tut and "But seriously...".

Exactly. At that seminar a producer played a clip of one of these goddawful comedy dramas to the assembled throng of Mancunian stand ups and writers (and me, an ex-pat, North Wales person) as an example of what Radio 4 is looking for - to the stoniest silence I have experienced. Tough audience obviously, but then Mark Radcliffe, who was on the panel said *Well that was rubbish cos nobody laughed* and broght the house down. Cue daggers from the BBC bigwigs. *Just an observation* said Radcliffe, to more laughter.

it's late and I'm typing badly! sorry!

Radcliffe saves the day, once more!

I think he's great. There's just a couple of things he does at the moment that bug me:

1 The Harry Enfield Smashy N Nicey rip-off voices in the Cheesily Cheerful Chart Challenge.

2 The Reeves & Mortimer Mulligan & O'Hare rip off voices in those songs.

So much else he does is brilliant. I wonder why he has to nick characters from comedians.

I was shortlisted for a job as Producer in Radio LE back in 1995, and part of the board was to analyse one such comedy-drama. It's very difficult to be encouraging/ constructive (which I like being) when there wasn't a single funny line in there. But obviously I was wrong, because the programme appeared on Radio 4 a few months later anyway.

Can't remember the title. That's how memorable it was.

I, too, have had a fair few interviews for jobs at the BBC and what I now know (after interviewing people for jobs myself) is what works best is unfettered enthusiasm. Even if you're forcing it. I remember being asked "What programmes would you NOT like to work on....?" a question designed to weed out people with dangerous opinions, i.e those who don't love EVERYTHING the BBC does.

At the risk of sounding like a dismal cynic, I don't think I'd get very far these days. I'm having trouble thinking of things the Beeb does at the moment that I actually approve of. (The Simpsons, fairly obviously, does not count.)

I agree. Especially when the *new* Simpsons being shown are about five years old.

If I was going for a BBC production job these days I'd cynically sit down and listen and watch all the comedy output and invent reasons why it's good. I imagine this is what applicants are actually doing - unless their taste is so bad they actually like stuff like *As Time Goes By*

Thank you for such an intelligent and non-hysterical thread guys. Very interesting to read that my experiences with the ABC in Australia aren't unique. Sigh. Keep on plugging away I guess.

Gee. Thanks.

Agree with much of the above, though I am disappointed to find that 'Mark' doesn't rate what he's doing for Radio Wales much. It smacks a bit of 11OCS when comedy writers are writing for a notional audience as defined by a commissioning editor who (as the Mark Radcliffe anecdote illustrates) clearly doesn't have a clue.

I wrote two gags for Granada Upfront many years ago (like, 1988, 87 maybe) and I too enjoyed the thrill of hearing my words coming out of a comedian's mouth. Sadly, this was the time when Upfront was on rotation with its three comedians, Coogan, Aherne & Dillinger, so I got no credit nor any payment. But I've never had the urge to write anything for broadcast since. I remember feeling very depressed when seeing 'The Day Today' for the first time (I was doing "mock news" broadcasts for radio) and realising I would never match up, so I jacked it in. Shame Iain Lee didn't think the same thing.

Oh, and the BBC. Helps if you like the taste of cock, too.

Cheerio

Steve

I was a little bit down on the Radio Wales sitcom I'm doing at the moment because it was just given to me and my co-writer as an assignment, almost, by BBC Wales, idea and all. We're trying our damndest to make it funny and interesting, but we're severely hampered by the fact it has to be about the National Assembly of Wales. BBC Wales even insisted at one point that we have a stereotypically camp homosexual character in it! Fortunately, we nixed that idea soon enough. I'm not ashamed of what I've written in this series (the acting, well, that's another matter....) I just don't want 'Co-Writer of BBC Radio Wales's THE BASEMENT' inscribed on my tombstone, even though (and this is wonderfully true)we got a letter from BBC Wales saying 'The Head of Sport said the series contained some of the funniest things he had ever heard...........on Radio Wales'

>I just don't want 'Co-Writer of BBC Radio Wales's THE BASEMENT' inscribed on my tombstone, even though (and this is wonderfully true)we got a letter from BBC Wales saying 'The Head of Sport said the series contained some of the funniest things he had ever heard...........on Radio Wales'

God, you have my sympathy, Mark. Did he write the last three words overleaf, so that you and your co-writer celebrated prematurely? (That's one of the funniest things I've heard all week, btw. Sorry to delight in your horror there.)

When's The Basement on, Mark?

Next March, officially, but hey, this is the BBC. Could be the tenty-twelfh of Septoberly for all I know. It was probably on last night.

>Actually, I sort of like Huddlines, in a way. It's unpretentious, and unlike Week Ending, at least it tries to make the audience laugh. And succeeds. (Listen to the audience reaction - most radio shows would kill to get that sort of response.)

But few would go as far as to bus in a load of dazed pensioners on tranquilizers who (literally) piss themselves at the attrocious material on offer.

>>Actually, I sort of like Huddlines, in a way. It's unpretentious, and unlike Week Ending, at least it tries to make the audience laugh. And succeeds. (Listen to the audience reaction - most radio shows would kill to get that sort of response.)
>
>But few would go as far as to bus in a load of dazed pensioners on tranquilizers who (literally) piss themselves at the attrocious material on offer.

And that's just the cast!

(Ahh yes, I've still go the magic)

You should be on C4.

>You should be on C4.

Is that like Viagra? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHHHH my brain is reverting to Huddlines mode.............feeling....compelled.....to....make joke about.....Mark Thatcher.....being late.......and......Skodas......being....crap

Mark Thatcher got lost in the Sahara desert because he insisted on racing in a Skoda.

True: Jeffrey Holland (of "Hi-de-hi!" and "You Rang, M'Lud?" fame) made a remark about MT in the revived form of Celebrity Squares in 1994, which was of such quality compared with the rest of the show that ITV used it in a trailer.

For the benefit of younger SOTCAA readers, who weren't born when the whole story was "topical" in the first place (1980...81? God knows), I won't bother explaining, instead here's that classic Monkhouse/Holland exchange, from which you can infer the details:

BOB MONKHOUSE: Jeffrey, what would you find 250 miles south of the Arctic Circle?

JEFFREY HOLAND: Er... Mark Thatcher looking for the M25!
[Monkhouse 'corpses' with laughter]


In his memoirs published in 1998, Monkhouse regrets taking part in the series.

Jeffrey Holland, Toby Longworth...

The writers were...

(two hours later)

That was the last in the present series of Week Ending.

Darn it! You've worked out the dirty secret that a lot of writers were given their first chance of success by 'Weekending'! I don't know what anyone was thinking.

P.S. Is it my imagination, or are some people on this thread unaware that 'Weekending' got cancelled some three years ago?

>
>P.S. Is it my imagination, or are some people on this thread unaware that 'Weekending' got cancelled some three years ago?

We're every bit as topical with our gags as Weekending was, Nev.

I wasn't having a go at Week Ending! The name just triggered a memory. (To paraphrase Stephen Fry, it's very easy to knock Week Ending. Incredibly easy, in fact.)

The other memory it triggered was of him waving during the "You Have Been Watching" end credits of Hi-de-hi but the less said about that the better.

In the writer's credits there was always a credit for the bun shop or something like that amongst the writers. Was there, or is it merely my mother taking advantage of my credulous nature?

>In the writer's credits there was always a credit for the bun shop or something like that amongst the writers. Was there, or is it merely my mother taking advantage of my credulous nature?

That would be The Cheese Shop, a bunch of writer peformers who have had a couple of series on Radio 4, and turned up as The Teachers on Live and Kicking.

Writing for Week Ending, like Huddlines, was for me, only partly an exercise in topicality. A good chunk of the material I used to get on was just stoopid stuff I made up, mostly about flies.

It would be good if there was a non-news based Radio 4 sketch show that accepted loads of stuff form non-com writers. That's what we need.

There has been talk of this. It's quite hard to do, particularly when you consider the amount of unusable green-ink stuff you get when you DO restrict it to the week's news, let alone saying to every mad stare with a beard 'well it's just about anything really'...

There may be some movement on this, but it's one thing Radio Light Entertainment saying it's a good idea, it's another trying to sell ANY idea for a sketch show to Radio 4.

Fingers crossed though...

The Teachers on L&K? Sheesh. Out of the fryingpan, into Zoe Balls' gaping mouth.

surely Trevor and Simon are the bestest?

Yeah! Remember the Bottomless Bin?

I wonder what Trev & Simon are doing now. I mean RIGHT now. Are they wowing the crowds at some 150,000 seater stadium in Australia. Or are they merely folding their pyjamas and contemplating another plate of beans on toast?

"Is it my imagination, or are some people on this thread unaware that 'Weekending' got cancelled some three years ago?"

No, but they've just finished reading out the credits.

When I was writing for Week Ending as a bright eyed young 6th former in the late 1980s, I used to get my mum to tape it for me cos I'd usually be out in the pub on a Friday night. When I got back I'd just listen to credits and if my name wasn't on it I wouldn't bother listening to the show. Any other WE contributors done the same thing?

"...and Newslines by Dr. Hackenbush, Mogwai, One Day Soon, Bean Is A Carrot, Bob and Barbara Boulton, kinder surprise and Evil Gas Bottle."

They wouldn't take my stuff. I didn't have a silly enough name.

Haha! Bob and Barbara Boulton! Those names always conjured an image of a cutesy middle-aged middle class couple giggling over a copy of The Guardian as they typed they Newslines into a old Amiga computer.

Having said that they were probably both intravenous drug addicts waiting hungrily for their £14.65 cheque so they could make it to the Saturday teatime repeat without getting the dry heaves.