The winner of the award, will be announced at midnight on Saturday by Al Murray.

What happened to The Boosh?

Well, I can't wait to see funnytalk this week...

>What happened to The Boosh?

What's happened to the funny acts?*

There are plenty of people that are funnier than Dave Gorman who are performing this year.
And there's no inclusion of Russell Peters! Kinder Surprise will not be amused...





*I DO NOT include Sean Lock amonst the unfunny, as I really like him.

Lock will win.

I said it first.

Well I thought it first.

has anyone on here actually any of these shows?

I shall be seeing all but Otis Lee Crenshaw and Sean Lock this week -- but i saw Rich Hall last year and he was fucking fantastic, and Sean Lock has always been an underrated genius.

Of the other three, I saw Garth Marenghi at a pre-Edinburgh tryout and it was (honestly) excellent; Lee Mack's sketch shows have, for the last couple of years at least, always been (apparently) suprisingly good; and yes, I understand the Dave Gorman hatred that goes on on this site but his show last year was IMHO actually rather entertaining.

So, let's try and reserve judgements you cynical bastards. (Has sudden sense of humour failure and finds self railing against negativity to unnecessary degree.)

Anyway, if I get the time, I'll try and post some (hopefully) objective views on these and the other shows I'll be catching in the last week of the Fringe.

But, as someone has earlier said about me, I'm a writer and we're always more generous about other people's material.

Yours,

Mr Un-Objective -- ODS

>has anyone on here actually any of these shows?

I've seen Sean Lock. The others didn't really appeal to me.

>I understand the Dave Gorman hatred that goes on on this site but his show last year was IMHO actually rather entertaining.

I don't hate him, I just don't find him funny.
He's been on the local radio (Forth FM) and it's been fairly unremarkable listening.
Ed Byrne was on the week before and in comparison to Gorman, he put him to shame... and I don't like Ed Byrne either.

>So, let's try and reserve judgements you cynical bastards. (Has sudden sense of

I'm one of the less cynical bastards on here, but there are other performers that I think should have be shortlisted but were not.

But to quote a certain forumgoer "it's all subjective."

:0)

Someone's ability to perform on a radio show,or indeed in any other context, need not be proof that their Ed Frin show is no good. To their credit, the shows this year seem to have been chosen on merit rather than as long service awards, and all of them are great in incomparably different ways.

Short and to the point. Nice.

>Someone's ability to perform on a radio show,or indeed in any other context, need not be proof that their Ed Frin show is no good.

I heard you on the show too! :0)
That wasn't my point. The point was that personally, I don't find him funny and he doesn't appear to be *naturally* funny.
I didn't go to see his show as I just wasn't interested.
I concede that there is a possibility I may have been wrong and that I missed out on a wonderful piece of comedy, but I was prepared to take that risk and instead see acts I knew I would find amusing, due to natural comedic talent.

>>instead see acts I knew I would find amusing, due to natural comedic talent.


Like Mr.Russell Peters! I am most distressed the Perrier judges seem to have ignored his good looks when coming to their decisions. And what's more someone has informed me that Mr.Gorman shall be porning himself on the the Big Breakfast tomorrow. Has the man no shame?

"Mr.Gorman shall be porning himself on the the Big Breakfast tomorrow. Has the man no shame?"

Surely you mean PAWNING, in the sense of giving up some belongings as security for a loan? Or does he really have no shame, and is the BB so desperate for viewers?

> Or does he really have no shame, and is the BB so desperate for viewers?

Perhaps so. Maybe he's planning to reveal to us another member possessing 'Dave Gorman' as a name.

I bet you've already set the video on the off-chance, eh kinder?

lol! You have a completely false opinion of me. Although it would be intriguing to see if the neatly trimmed side burns are something of a trait amongst those given the name.

Gorman was on BBC Choice last night, on liquid news, with a rubbish beard. I wonder what constitutes liquid news?

This is true, honest...

There was a R4 specail last night at 11, T.Slattery presenting a look at this year's Perrier nominees (because he won the 1st one ever, so he knows all about it). My radio packed up and refused to let me listen after a few minutes. But it was OK again for the news this morning.

Eerie.

Could it be my house has acquired a Helpful Poltergeist, who mucks up TV and radio reception whenever something not-very-good is about to come on, or an Evil Poltergeist that does it when I'm about to encounter something briliant and amazing? I'll experiment by watching/hearing some crap shows on purpose (Family Affairs, Dominic Holland, etc.) Meanwhile, if anyone did get to hear the show, could you tell me if the acts (none of whom I've seen, apart from S.Lock years ago) came across particularly well?

Did you see the Gorman fiasco on the BB this morning? What crazy TV.

I did see it, due to being at work till midnight last night, I had a leisurely Breakfast whilst enjoying seeing 4 Dave Gormans in one room. Superb.
Actually Danny Wallace's column directly contradicts what Dave said. According to Wallace it was Gorman who insisted the manager of East Fife was called Dave Gorman, whilst according to Gorman it was Wallace. In my opinion inconsistencies = lies.
Also, I would hardly consider it the most amazing thing ever if I met someone with my name. Tch!

Chuck D is a rapper in the group Public Enemy. Isn't that amazing for you, Sam?

And then there's Jack Dee, whose name sounds the same as yours.

Actually I am finding that quite exciting.
maybe i ought to consider writing a show around it?
What about Mel b and mel C? They come close.
Billie Dee williams.
hmm.. seem to be having probs with me shift key....
I must come clean actually, and say that D isn't actually my full surname...
garbled?
i think so.

Do you think Dave Gorman was genuinely excited when he was confronted with three more Dave Gormans? It was all a bit of an anti-climax for me after the execution of the 'Dave Gorman: the gay doorman' gag. How fortunate he met a homosexual Dave Gorman without which he wouldn't have a witty Perrier award winning quip.

Even that was contrived bollocks.
He wasn't even a door-man.
If he was, I could have just accepted that "Dave Gorman the gay doorman" was amusing in a sub-Viz character type way. But he had to flounder around in that "here is a gay man called Dave Gorman. Imagine if he was a door-man.." type territory.
Imagine if if he had been a lunatic tramp. He could have been Dave Gorman the raving poor-man. But as neither of these things were true, its little more than childish rhyming. Having said that I probably am, have been or will be a hypocrite, by unveiling some loose rhyming pun. At some point. So if I do, sorry.

Oh but your offering WAS funny Sam. And to think you thought of it without exceeding the travels of your desk chair.

Heh! Its that old sarcasm or not sarcasm quandry that confronts me once more.

More of a dilemma really.

I thought I would eliminate that fear with the use of capitals. Sorry for failing.

Its my failure, surely.

It's the fault of Dave Gorman, surely?

That's the thing, it should have been your triumph. I let a prospective feelign of well-being for you diminsih with my flimsy toiling of your manly offerings. I am deeply sorry for being unsatisfactory.

Well, if it makes you feel better I'll let my chest swell with pride!

The thing about that Dave Gorman idea is that it wasn't exactly the strongest idea in the world when Alan Partridge did it way back in 1994.

Anyway, Edinburgh. The Ibiza of comedy....zzzzzz.........

Yes, but despite all this
none of you have actually seen his show have you
You are like the NME circa 1989, irritated that something has happened without your permission

>You are like the NME circa 1989,

Look at the best comedy song strand - it's 1996 NME there at least.

>Yes, but despite all this
>none of you have actually seen his show have you
>You are like the NME circa 1989, irritated that something has happened without your permission

This is amusing coming from "Mr Goodies/Cheesy racism hasn't dated well"...

"It's funny though, because someone like Stewart Lee, well, Stewart Lee,
would tell you quite confidently without ever having heard any episodes,
that the Goons was shit, and that Hancock simply old fashioned. [I mean they
could be described as both, but..........]. Comics, eh?"

Mind you, The Goons and Hancock weren't Avalon artistes... Boom Boom.

Stew - Some of the corpses have seen DG's show. But, most of the postings on here are about his possible motivation, rather than his art.

It doesn't matter what we say now, since it'll inevitably be taken as sour grapes that we're down in London moaning, and not up there in Edinburgh engaged in an All-Star Let's-Suck-Our-Industry-Friend's-Dicks party.

How do you know we're not indulging in a clever double bluff (typical of a lot of our work)?

You have to admit, though, the shortlist isn't as bad as it could have been.
I liked Otis Lee Crenshaw, which I have actually seen (although not at Edinburgh). This new "Gorecki's Horror Stories" or whatever is at least not there due to the hype.
And, of course, no Boosh.

I don't really understand the relevance of the second half of this exchange. Re Dave Gorman, I said -

">Yes, but despite all this
>none of you have actually seen his show have you
>You are like the NME circa 1989, irritated that something has happened without your permission"

Then, you said,..
"This is amusing coming from "Mr Goodies/Cheesy racism hasn't dated well"...
"It's funny though, because someone like Stewart Lee, well, Stewart Lee,
would tell you quite confidently without ever having heard any episodes,
that the Goons was shit, and that Hancock simply old fashioned. [I mean they
could be described as both, but..........]. Comics, eh?"

I've heard the Goons and Hancock and liked much of both. Perhaps you have on file some printed or taped off the record conversational comment made by me ten years ago where I said something like the above, but I don't really understand...

As for this 'cheesey racism' thing that you keep going on about, can you really not see why, in the year 2000, the BBC would have anxieties about broadcasting Bill Oddie, blacked up, coming out singing in a Jamaican accent? Admitedly, some contemporary comics might do the same thing, but, rightly or wrongly, it would have the gloss of surrealism or irony which would make execs and the audience, rightly or wrongly, feel more comfortable with it.

Anyhow, good luck to Dave Gorman for promoting his show by whatever means necessary. The reason why lots of the things you like have disappeared is because certain projects are not sustainable without money to support them, and financing will come in if people are made aware of a project's existence and then choose to spend their money on seeing it or funding it.

I'm sure, like all of us, Dave would love not to have to do publicity, but having sunk time and money into a thing, you know that publicising it is one way towards recouping the money spent on it and on the many loss making years of development of style and material leading up to it, and this enables you to then carry on and do something else rather than giving up due to having no money. Many of the people that made me want to do stand-up - Ted Chippington, Oscar McLennan, Roger Mann, Michael RedMond, Johnny Immaterial, Kevin MacAleer, - have disappeared or given up, and might not have had to if they'd publicised themsleves.

Even in the 11 years since I started doing stand-up PR culture has mushroomed to the point where, for most of us, it is a case of adapt or die.

One of the reasons why I'm not particularly keen to be in anything on TV ever again, apart from the existence of this website and people trying to push me under cars, is because I don't enjoy co-operating with the PR machine and find it deeply embarassing, but up here in Edinburgh, doing some interviews, plugging my show, and selling out, means the difference between loosing £2000 and £5000, so on a purely practical level, it is desirable and necessary.

Calm down!

> I've heard the Goons and Hancock and liked much of both. Perhaps you have on file some printed or taped off the record conversational comment made by me ten years ago where I said something like the above, but I don't really understand...

That was a quote from someone else Stew...

> As for this 'cheesey racism' thing that you keep going on about, can you really not see why, in the year 2000, the BBC would have anxieties about broadcasting Bill Oddie, blacked up, coming out singing in a Jamaican accent? Admitedly, some contemporary comics might do the same thing, but, rightly or wrongly, it would have the gloss of surrealism or irony which would make execs and the audience, rightly or wrongly, feel more comfortable with it.

Thank you, that illustrates my point perfectly! Clearly you haven't seen any of the Goodies episodes in years because, if you had, you'd know that they too were using surrealism and irony *long* before the contemporary comics you mention. The Goodies were known for their sheer inventiveness and imagination and are still known around the world for tackling issues years before anyone else...

If the Beeb did have any anxieties about repeating such material, it's odd that they let UK Gold show them just a few years ago.

Stewart - What happened to the fire in your eyes?

>Stewart - What happened to the fire in your eyes?


That's all fine and well in theory, but if you stood to lose £5000, wouldn't practicality prevail?

"Selling out" - do you mean the venue, or just playing the game?

> That's all fine and well in theory, but if you stood to lose £5000, wouldn't practicality prevail?

The problem is, that Stew hasn't distinguished between regular publicity (which is fine) and getting your best mate to exploit his position as a Radio Producer and Columnist to unfairly promote your show over your rivals.

A number of contributors on this forum seem to believe that the corpses are anti all PR, I'm not quite sure why this is though - remember these are the same guys who are suggesting comedians should do adverts. The thing the corpses (and myself) are anti are those in the media who used their position to create an unfair playing field, particularly when it causes shows to be promoted over and above much more deserving work. I know life isn't fair, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't point out the situation in an attempt to address it.

I am particularly surprised at Stewart's attitude towards this (although it is fairly obviously the Avalon partyline being dragged out again, even if Stew isn't aware that he's doing it). It's all part of the same situation that caused TMWRNJ and Fist of Fun to be drowned out and cancelled because it wasn't publicised properly.

By suggesting Gorman and his ilk are right you are actively promoting the situation. All this website and forum can do is highlight the problem by discussion, but that's better than being apathetic.

Your Avalon baiting is pathetic and hackneyed. It's like a knee jerk joke about Keith Chegwin.And I expect it of Time Out and not of you guys who you'd think would be clever enough to see that much of their bad press is as a result of other agents who wish they were them being jealous and producers who can't do their jobs and have no idea what they're doing complaining cos JT shouted at them for being rubbish.

The truth is that Fist of Fun and TMWRNJ would never have existed without the superb work of jon Thoday at Avalon, who believed in us and kept pushing for us to get the shows (also Simon Munnery- who else would have represented him for over 10 years because they believed he was brilliant- even though he wasn't exactly bringing in money for anyone- no-one is the answer)
It was despite the attempts of Avalon PR that there was no publicity. Much of this was down to the BBC not being interested. All that would really have been required was a few trails and a regular time slot.
In a way that defeats your point about the power of PR. I honestly think that it doesn't do that much good, that most shows only succeed by getting to a point where they have been already noticed and then that's where PR comes in to exploit that interest. I have the same PR as Al Murray and yet have never received the press attention.

Stew definitely has seen the Goodies recently. I bought him a video for his birthday and we watched it together.

>Stew definitely has seen the Goodies recently. I bought him a video for his birthday and we watched it together.

And I sent him a tape of episodes recently. Stew explained his Goodies opinions to me privately, but Rob S seemed to be knocking the fact he didn't support his views on the earlier Goodies thread. Stewart doesn't *have* to, I suppose.

I don't know what you're on about Richard. Keith Chegwin jokes are as great as they've ever been.

Is Jon Thoday the one with the sexy snarl?

Hmm... I'm not trying to bait Avalon here Rich and I'm certainly not suggesting they weren't responsible for the crap publicity your shows got (clearly the Beeb's fault and was a comment on the general state of the media).

My point was that Stew was ignoring the bias Wallace was giving Gorman because Gorman is represented by Avalon.

If Stew has seen the Goodies lately, then he's obviously intepreted them very differently to the way I have...

SOME THINGS
1) Again, Rob, at no point ever have I said the Goodies lacked 'irony' or 'surrealism'. I simply said that a tv controller, assuming they didn't, would thus have predictable anxieties about certain issues of taste and intent. It is easy to understand what I have been saying. Also, I was watching The Goodies before most of you were born, have a signed photo of Bill Oddie, and once almost had sex in a room he had previously occupied.
2) To be fair, the fact that Danny Wallace runs a website and mentions Dave Gorman on it hardly counts as publicity in any real sense, as none of the people who are likely to give him any assistance in real practical or financial terms are likely to look at anything on the internet. It's a bit like, 20 years ago, complaining that someone who did a photocopied fanzine with a circulation of 200 had snogged somebody in one of the bands they wrote about.

>SOME THINGS
>1) Again, Rob, at no point ever have I said the Goodies lacked 'irony' or 'surrealism'. I simply said that a tv controller, assuming they didn't, would thus have predictable anxieties about certain issues of taste and intent. It is easy to understand what I have been saying. Also, I was watching The Goodies before most of you were born, have a signed photo of Bill Oddie, and once almost had sex in a room he had previously occupied.

Stew, you previously said:

"As for this 'cheesey racism' thing that you keep going on about, can you really not see why, in the year 2000, the BBC would have anxieties about broadcasting Bill Oddie, blacked up, coming out singing in a Jamaican accent?"

Now because you didn't go on disagree with them, it suggested (to me) that you agree, particularly as you then said:

"Admitedly, some contemporary comics might do the same thing, but, rightly or wrongly, it would have the gloss of surrealism or irony which would make execs and the audience, rightly or wrongly, feel more comfortable with it."

Without going on to say something along the lines of 'of course, the Goodies had all this too and more'... Now you've made yourself clearer it is easier to understand.

>2) To be fair, the fact that Danny Wallace runs a website and mentions Dave Gorman on it hardly counts as publicity in any real sense, as none of the people who are likely to give him any assistance in real practical or financial terms are likely to look at anything on the internet. It's a bit like, 20 years ago, complaining that someone who did a photocopied fanzine with a circulation of 200 had snogged somebody in one of the bands they wrote about.

Now Stew, you and I both know this is complete bollocks. I could go on about the suspected number of visitors that DW's FT gets, or why was a BBC employee demoted in their job because of a posting on this forum, or any other number of thousands examples of why the you can't be dismissive of the net like that (and why it's nothing like that photocopied fanzine example), but instead I'll ask if you can explain why (if that doesn't count as 'publicity in any real sense') did Avalon Publicity very recently contact me again about possible web production work for them? Are they mad?

Avalon-baiting?

Hardly the same as 'Keith Chegwin'. People who use that reference-joke simply do so to get an easy laugh with no recourse to what he's achieved in his career. Our truck with Avalon has a lot of arguments and examples attatched to its rear bumper. Not the same thing at all.

Some extended members of the SOTCAA family have just returned from Edinburgh with tales of comedians slagging Avalon to high heaven. We also know people who've failed industry job interviews because they happen to mention they've worked for Avalon in the past. Yes, it's an industry joke that Avalon are poo. But, as I've explained before, they're no better or worse than any other agency. It's just the fact that they *think* they are which raises a titter at Corpses HQ. As I said, Jon Thoday, lovely bloke, lots of great acts, etc, blah, bored...

All by the by anyway. This new boring argument is about acts from a specific agency sticking together in the face of adversity (or, in this case, in the face of a piss-taking website) and not a specific reaction to what Avalon are getting up to with their evilness.

Could also point out, Rich, that there was a fair bit of tedious Corpses-baiting from yourself a while back ('the audience laughed - maybe Avalon arranged it, eh Corpses, ha ha ha'; 'We've edited Time Gentlemen Please down to 25 minutes - no conspiracy theories, Corpses, ha ha ha') which we pretty much ignored (despite it being equally 'pathetic'). You can't now moan at us for having a wee poke at yourself every so often. Surely that's the fun of it? You challenge us, we challenge you. And provide something for Jon, Mogwai, et al to ride their high horses through Corpses valley over.

Ho - if we *really* wanted to bring Avalon to the ground we could open up the dirt-file we have on standby. Amazing, the stories industry people tell you when they're pissed...

I keep expecting Dave Gorman to join the Sarah Payne campaign. Plenty of mindless publicity there. Heh - he could get a mob together and chase a child molester down the street shouting 'Are you Dave Gorman'. Class entertainment value and plenty of viewers.

Ha ha, laugh at my funny comedy etc...

Goodies, Goodies, Goodies... All I'll say here is that over the past few months I've been fortunate to watch every single episode of the damn thing (thanks to Messrs Halo and Balston). And as far as I can see the only people who might misunderstand the 'racism' thing are those gushing look-at-my-liberal-face, never-experienced-true-joy, middle-class morality, industry plebs who feel the need to protect the viewers from real life. The viewers being those idiots who need their jokes explained to them, who enjoy Gail Porter crying on 'Never Mind The Buzzcocks', who care a flying fuck about 'Nasty Nick' out of Big Brother, who laaaarrrge it at Ibiza and for whom most of today's TV comedy is aimed. People who don't understand comedy. Plenty of them to patronise and pursue.

No room for intelligent comedy in that equation. Or even comedy which requires one to think above Fast Show catchphrase level. Can you really not see that you've been fucked over by the same attitude? Or do you find it easier to put a face to your nemesis in the form of Jane Root and blame her personally? She made the decision to axe you, but the grab-the-plebs attitude by which she plies her trade is all around us.

And from where I'm sitting, amidst a pile of old Lee & Herring radio tapes, it looks like you've given up the fight.

Just got a chance to actually read all the above, rather than react to phonecalls about it. Think my last posting fits in okay, whatever it was.

But though, but though, what though, but... Kevin MacAleer? I've only ever seen this guy once - on Saturday Live in about 85 - doing a routine with a slide show, pointing out lateral details in a photo of four owls. 'You take four normal people, invite them into your home... ask them a few personal questions... tickle them a bit... and this is what you get'. Blew my mind when I saw it. Exactly the same feeling I got when I saw Stewart Lee for the first time on Stand Up in 1991.

I always detected a MacAleer influence in Stewart's routine about the photo of the cats and the dog at the piano, albeit substituting blind logic for lateral thinking.

And at the Riverside recently I caught the warm-up to Stewart's Edinburgh show. First time I've ever seen him live as a solo act. Blew my mind again. 'If an infinite number of monkeys were given an infinite number of typewriters, eventually they would come up with the line "Hey hey we're the monkeys...".'

And MacAleer's four owls picture - I'm sure I saw it on the cover of an LP once. Anyone know what it is? (Not such a long shot - I'm sure there aren't many LPs with four owls on the cover).

You miss my point. There are hundreds of stories about Avalon. It's amazing how few of them are true. I'm just surprised that you've fallen for the stories about them, without realising that other people have stuff to gain and face to save by making them up (or exaggerating) I'm in no way saying they're perfect. But all comedy fans owe them a lot for what they have managed to achieve with comics who would otherwise not have come to your attention - those radioo tapes would not exist without Jon Thoday, Joe.

I truly believe that me and Stew are sticking to our guns as much as is possible for anyone going into their mid 30s. I'm afraid you do just change your mind about stuff (I recently gave up being vegetarian after 14 years) Doesn't mean I'm right now, or was wrong before, but things have changed.

Nice to see you defending the Goodies for racism. Rather than doing cartoons of them being Hitler though.
As for sticking up for other Avalon acts, I'm afraid you're wrong. I feel no such loyalty. I just call it as I see it. But maybe it's cos I do get a first hand view of a lot fo stuff that you get second hand that I feel I can call some of that stuff better than you. Maybe I'm deluded and the member of some evil cult without realising it. Go on, put up some of your Avalon stories.They generally make Thoday and co piss their pants with delight and wish they really were that evil!

Maybe I'm speaking out of turn here, I'm not in any way linked with the industry or anyone who is. I'm just someone who likes comedy and if something makes me laugh that's great. I saw Dave Gorman's show last year and loved it. This year, because I was only around for a couple of days and he clashed with Stew and the Boosh I missed it. Therefore I have no idea if it was funny or not and as a result am not going to comment on the show, its influences or its success. What I do want to say is that if there are people who have come out with a grin on their face the size of the one I had last year then sod what publicity he has or hasn't done. I (I would suspect along with SOTCAA) am deeply envious of anyone who is capable of being a success at making people laugh. I realise that your main arguement is not about whether Dave is funny or not, but about his 'tactics' and also about the fact that when he gets publicity it means someone else maybe 'more deserving' isn't, but wouldn't life be great if everyone could get all of the support they needed/deserved. Quite frankly I know nothing about the policies/politics of Avalon and I don't care. I love Rich and Stew, Al, Simmon Munnery amongst others and it seems that without Avalon I'd never have seen them (esp. Munnery I imagine).
Maybe this means I'm being blinkered to the 'real' arguement, I don't know. What I do know is that I've seen some brilliant comedians who are totally unknown performing at comedy clubs in Bristol and I'd love it if they could be successful on a big scale and I will do my best at my own little word of mouth campains. Maybe you should try publicising the talents of the people you feel deserve more public credit on this site (as it seems like a lot of industry people visit it) rather than slagging off the activities of people who are trying hard to make a success of their own carreers.
If due to my newness on this site I am going to find my points have already been answered and address hundreds of times over then I appologise, but this is how I see it as someone who doesn't have any insider (or trying to be insider) information based prejudices.

God, I really can't type - sorry :o)

That opening line of my monkeys routine was written by Jim Miller. I bought it off him in exhange for a pizza.
The owl sleeve album is Not Before The Weekend (or something) by Turkey Bones And The Wild Dogs.
I used a cropped version of it in my Edinburgh show this year as a tribute to KM.