In the world of dodgy facial hair, so many talk the talk, but few walk the walk like the man Mike. I mean, come on, look at these young pretenders such as the members of Arab Strap and Grandaddy - it's a good job *they're* clearly not known to the News of the World, innit?

Mike Morris is deservedly off our network screens. Don't think I've seen a less appealing person on television. I remember seeing him on TV-AM making a really bitchy comment about the closure of the station, and how disgusting it was that so many people, him especially, would be out of work...

Last time I saw him was on Calendar in the mid-90's interviewing the owner of a snooker-playing collie. Best place for him....

I thought he was very good on TVam, although he's a shadow of himself on Calendar. Mind you, he has had to sit beside Christa Ackroyd for several years...

He's also a very nice man on a personal level.

I think only responsible red names should be able to start threads.

>I think only responsible red names should be able to start threads.

I've only ever started irresponsible ones

>Mike Morris is deservedly off our network screens. Don't think I've seen a less appealing person on television. I remember seeing him on TV-AM making a really bitchy comment about the closure of the station, and how disgusting it was that so many people, him especially, would be out of work...
>
A classic TV moment: "I am *gutted*"

A mate of mine was making a film around Yorkshire in 1997 and did a studio interview with Mike Morris on 'Calendar'. Tim snorted rather a lot of coke to deal with it and went live on air. I treasure that videotape.

I've always thought Morris was crap. He drove me up the wall on TV-am and I was pleased to see him go. YTV must have thought "well we had a wally before (Richard Whiteley), so let's get another one and the whole world will love him.

Problem is they forgot one thing. While RW is a wally, he's a loveable one. MM has no charisma whatsoever, the polar opposite of Richard. I class him as like Nick Owen with added "eurgh!".

Then they've got Christa Ackroyd with him, an excellent newsreader but a bit of an acquired taste to say the least(!)

To be honest I'm surprised more people watch Calendar than Look North. Calendar was great in the 80's but it's really fallen off of late. Even the title music is a horrible, tinny number now.

Calendar and Look North are level pegging in the viewing figures now, and LN may even be slightly ahead of Calendar.

Look North was bad enough with the televisual Anti-Christ Mike Neville, but now it's unwatchable. Two minutes of news and twenty-eight of "and finally"s.

I ask you.

No! The good Look North from Leeds!!

Do you guys *seriously* watch regional news programmes?

>Do you guys *seriously* watch regional news programmes?

Ah it's that ole chestnut again. Here's the reason Al, turning all serious for a minute. You are, most likely, from the South-East (or thereabouts) of England, right? The thing is, all the important stuff that happens down there is generally covered by the national news, leaving all the unimportant tat to be covered on local.

I live in the North-East. Here, if we have a murder, or rape, or a company goes bust, or all the trains are delayed cos some deadhead jumped infront of a 125, this stuff never gets covered by the national news. Something *really* bad needs to happen before we even get a mention. And that's the sort of stuff that is far more important than the Millenium Bridge swaying in London is to us. And it's the same for all the provincial areas, and even more so for Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

In short, local news is a much-needed service in these areas. Is that so difficult to understand?

Oh, don't start your "poncy southerners" routine (was your Daddy working class, by any chance? Thought so). I grew up in the Midlands and I hated local news because it was really boring.

Any way, the real issue with TVAM were that posh woman who did the reader's letters in the early 80s, that slimy US film critic who gave 'Videodrome' no stars (wanker), and Gyles Brandreth. All 3 of whom were more offensive and awful than Mike Morris, who was merely dull. And GB still stalks the land.

Murder cases, nasty rapes, and major company closures do get mentioned on national news (if they are big enough stories) regardless of them not happening in the south-east. To claim otherwise is bullshit.

>Murder cases, nasty rapes, and major company closures do get mentioned on national news ...

Half the time I'd rather not know anyway. Keep meself locked away in the dark, imagining everyone out there is as down-right decent as I am!

>Oh, don't start your "poncy southerners" routine..

Whoah there, Jon! Twas you who started on at me about my Northern mills, whippets and clogs... or summat.. thats got to be a little bit of North/South animosity if only to keep Tony Blair(s) on his toes. Oh, and good luck to little Leo Blair. Forever.

Come to Scotland for the perfect example of regional news: our 'regional' news covers the whole of Scotland...

>I hated local news because it was really boring.

I can't watch the local 'South East Meridian Tonight' or whatever it's called because I have the Scottish equivalent to compare it to.
The last time I saw it there was a feature on a man (who couldn't sing) TEACHING a class of social misfits karaoke.

Meridian really is dire in comparison.

>Murder cases, nasty rapes, and major company closures do get mentioned on national news (if they are big enough stories) regardless of them not happening in the south-east. To claim otherwise is bullshit.

Example : A 14-year-old schoolgirl was murdered in Sunderland a few weeks ago. Was is mentioned nationally? No it was not. They thought a kid being swept out to sea in Norfolk to be of much more importance. No offence to the relatives of the latter but it seems we do indeed have double-standards here.

And I'm not baiting southerners. I'm simply stating what all northerners know to be fact. In the same way you can say that the inhabitants of a small country don't need a news programme. Try telling that to the Swiss.

And no, my dad was not working class. Nor am I, or any other members of my family. So there.

Yeah, but that's just facts, isn't it?

I should think that whether a story gets covered depends as well on what time of day it breaks. I have seen regional stories on the midday news that get squeezed out by 6 or later. Cf. newspapers pick up all such stories the next day, because they don't have such an issue with space (quality papers, anyway).

No offence to the murdered teenager, but I would suggest that a child getting swept out to sea was an avoidable accident that others needed alerting to the dangers of, whereas murder is usually a singular crime motivated by an animosity towards the victim. So the kid in Norfolk was more of a story than the one in Sunderland. I don't know of any serial killer cases that went under-reported because they happened in the North (eg. Yorkshire Ripper).

OK well let me give you one more example. Recently there have been a spate of IRA bomb-scares in Railway Stations in the North East, causing chaos for commuters (one in Newcastle, one in Middlesbrough and one in Darlington). Admittedly there were no actual explosions (although controlled explosions of suspect packages did take place).

This is of real interest to anyone going to work in this part of the world. This was not covered either, and it categorically *would* have been covered if it had happened in the London area.

Really? My office was cleared out for half a day when the Queen Mum's birthday thing was on due to the bomb scare around Victoria. How much coverage did the scare itself get? Also, was there any coverage for the scare a fortnight or so after, for which we didn't get evacuated but the roads were blocked off for an hour or 2?

>Really? My office was cleared out for half a day when the Queen Mum's birthday thing was on due to the bomb scare around Victoria. How much coverage did the scare itself get? Also, was there any coverage for the scare a fortnight or so after, for which we didn't get evacuated but the roads were blocked off for an hour or 2?

Well if all that is the case, then it surprises me that you don't value a regional news service... :)

The bomb scare on the day of the Queen mother's birthday was reported nationally.

Yeah, but that's because they found a device at Ealing Broadway. The second scare wasn't reported.

Working as I do in London I can tell you that the majority of bomb scares here do not get reported - on the the national or regional. They only get reported when an actual device is found.

However I have noticed that some stories of similar magnitude that appear in outside the South East and those inside, you can bet that the one reported on the national is the south east. Especially true with house fires on the national as well.

I've lived in Manchester, Durham and London and have seen it happen.

Queen Mother's birthday? When was that then?

It's been going on for about the last 2 years. But TV only mention it because she lives in the south-east.

Sarcasm won't get you anywhere. It is a fact that a London-centric news service is going to heavily bias toward a 100-mile radius around London. In the same way people in North Northumberland are neglected somewhat by the Newcastle-biased regional news organisations. Which is why in recent years many parts of the country have seen regional news split even further into sub-regions.

In the Border Television area, more people watch Lookaround than the BBC's news at 6.00, and more people watch Look North than ITV's news at 6.30. So I am not alone in thinking this. And as Bods says, you have to live in areas remote to London to realise that this is a real problem.

>Working as I do in London I can tell you that the majority of bomb scares here do not get reported

Every news organisation for which I have worked has had a policy of NOT reporting bomb scares. Rationale is that the scarers are only looking for kicks from publicity. And that's thwarted.
That rationale could be expanded to virtually everything, I agree. However, it is restricted to bomb scares for some reason.

I mean here bomb hoaxes rather than scares.

I think my point was touched on by Jon. Yes I do live in the SE. London in fact. But I have lived in Cardiff, Bristol, and my family are from Stockport and Scotland. I have watched regional news programmes in all of these regions and it is uniformly dull. Often it is poor. That's all.

Regional news is pretty damned boring in London as well.

Don't know what all this is to do with Mike Morris but anyway.....

Can't agree more about local news, its all crap and uninteresting and just as much so in London.
Having lived in Yorkshire last year I was rather bemused by the ridiculously partisan news coverage.
Every opportunity to sing the praises and acheivements of the Northerners (particularly if at the expense of Southerners) was taken & I found it rather sad really.
Even the Yorkshire post celebrated the millenium with 1000 years of Yorkshire achievements and then went on to take credit for virtually every civilisation advance with dubious and tenuous links to that great county.
Even sadder though was that East Anglian TV (all based in Norwich in my day) had and probably still has a long running bias towards reporting Norfolk at Suffolk's expense, perhaps the saddest thing is that the Suffolkers get upset about it.
At the end of the day logistics make a big difference in reporting particularly if budgets are small so there is no point getting worked up about how news is reported.
As far as National news is concerned I can genuinely see no bias, the BBC regularly broadcasts events and from studios all over the United Kingdom and if a disproportionate amount of coverage is reckoned to come from London its because it is the capital city, the finance centre, by far the heaviest populated city, the political, legal and even royal centre, so what do you expect.

Oh and as for Mike Morris, he was just a dull person doing a job that was and continues to be a job done by dull persons, is he any worse than Richard and Judy or that utterly tedious Scottish woman on TVAM?

I'm just a bit embarrased cos he's my dad....
and he's still gutted

Mike Morris is your dad? That's brilliant!

OK, so local news is crap and uninteresting, ignoring the fact that Yorkshire news is boring to an outsider because he can't relate to it, taking your argument to it's logical conclusion all we need is one news broadcast, from New York, giving only World news, as national news is less interesting because it doesn't make the world stage. And taking it to the other conclusion there is nothing less interesting in your life than what is going on in your street, where you live.

I, on the other hand, find news which happens in places I can relate to to be more interesting than remote places I can't. Who gives a toss about tailbacks on the M25, or Millenium Bridges swaying?

>Mike Morris is your dad? That's brilliant!

Sorry that was purely for comic effect.... he's actually my aunt, and goes by the name of Michelle Morris now. She works in Debenhams in their fine wines & exotic pets department in Croydon.

>OK, so local news is crap and uninteresting, ignoring the fact that Yorkshire news is boring to an outsider because he can't relate to it, taking your argument to it's logical conclusion all we need is one news broadcast, from New York, giving only World news, as national news is less interesting because it doesn't make the world stage. And taking it to the other conclusion there is nothing less interesting in your life than what is going on in your street, where you live.
>
>I, on the other hand, find news which happens in places I can relate to to be more interesting than remote places I can't. Who gives a toss about tailbacks on the M25, or Millenium Bridges swaying?

Well not quite, local news is crap and uninteresting to ME but I accept that it is not to everyone.
In the same way I don't get upset about bland mainstream sitcoms which I find utterly tedious, my judgement is that they are crap but they are popular and ratings are what drives their scheduling and ultimately production.

The opposite extreme of your argument would be that every room in every house produces its own local news bulletin tailored to interests of its occupants.

>>Mike Morris is your dad? That's brilliant!
>
>Sorry that was purely for comic effect.... he's actually my aunt, and goes by the name of Michelle Morris now. She works in Debenhams in their fine wines & exotic pets department in Croydon.

I thought she sold calendars!
(sorry!)
>
>
>

>The opposite extreme of your argument would be that every room in every house produces its own local news bulletin tailored to interests of its occupants.

Heh heh -- I like that! And what's so wrong with that anyway -- pretty much what America has now with public access TV.

Ah. Yes. I see the flaw now ;)

Strange thing was, I wasn't actually directing that comment directly at you alone Lord Lopper, not deliberately anyway. Just came out that way. Looking back at the thread it's spooky how I used the same words as you even. Woooooo....

I'm not from Yorkshire, but I've lived in Leeds for three years. I like the regional news here. They've got a real local pride in Yorkshire (which is curiously absent across other parts of the UK), and it's taught me that there's more to life than just Leeds city centre where I live, or the national news agenda.

The other important thing about regional news is that it's wrong to see it as just a limited version of the national news. The lighter features may not be to everyones' taste, but when done well (and they are done well by BBC North and YTV) the regional programmes provide a much more people-orientated programme which complements the event-based national news.

>I'm not from Yorkshire, but I've lived in Leeds for three years. I like the regional news here. They've got a real local pride in Yorkshire (which is curiously absent across other parts of the UK), and it's taught me that there's more to life than just Leeds city centre where I live, or the national news agenda.

Amen to that. Yorkshire, the North of England (ie. the North East and the Lakes)and the South West are the only 3 areas of England with a really strong pride in their regions, and it's a pity that other areas don't share this pride.

>The other important thing about regional news is that it's wrong to see it as just a limited version of the national news.

That is true, but the key word here is 'just'. Local news is about reflecting the people of the area. It is inevitable that people from outside the area are not going to be interested. But it is also about reporting some quite important news which does not make the national agenda, often simply because of time constraints, the story not having the immediacy needed (national news [not world news] is all about soundbites in the main, being as it is dominated by politics, Westminster politics in particular), or simply plain London bias (which DOES exist).

Fair enough Jase, maybe I'm a little harsh on local news because I grew up in East Anglia although it was within a "100 mile radius of London".

>Yorkshire, the North of England (ie. the North East and the Lakes)and the South West are the only 3 areas of England with a really strong pride in their regions, and it's a pity that other areas don't share this pride.

What utter parochial nonsense. Does it *really* matter which region of England you come from? I mean, nationalism is bad enough but regionalism... Sheesh.

>
>What utter parochial nonsense. Does it *really* matter which region of England you come from? I mean, nationalism is bad enough but regionalism... Sheesh.
>
Reminds me of that WHTTLikely Lads line from No Hiding Place where Terry says, "To be honest, I don't like most of the people in this street".

It's on in a few weeks, if BBC2 don't mess it up. Brian Glover's in it - playing a bluff Yorkshireman, for a change. But he played it very well.

BTW I'd like to see anyone walk into a busy pub in Manchester or Liverpool and declare that 'The North' is really the North East and The Lakes. Good luck...

>BTW I'd like to see anyone walk into a busy pub in Manchester or Liverpool and declare that 'The North' is really the North East and The Lakes. Good luck...

I don't care what they think in Manchester. The Northern region is *officially* The North East and the Lakes. Ask any government department if you don't believe me.

And the fact that you think it parochial nonsense to be proud of your region proves my point. You won't find a northerner agreeing with you.

BTW to all North-Westerners, I know you're just as proud of your areas, but it is different. For example, people from Lancashire don't consider themselves the same as people from Liverpool or Manchester, so the "regional" aspect doesn't exist in the same way as it does in the rest of the North.

>>BTW I'd like to see anyone walk into a busy pub in Manchester or Liverpool and declare that 'The North' is really the North East and The Lakes. Good luck...
>
>I don't care what they think in Manchester. The Northern region is *officially* The North East and the Lakes. Ask any government department if you don't believe me.
>
>And the fact that you think it parochial nonsense to be proud of your region proves my point. You won't find a northerner agreeing with you.
>
>BTW to all North-Westerners, I know you're just as proud of your areas, but it is different. For example, people from Lancashire don't consider themselves the same as people from Liverpool or Manchester, so the "regional" aspect doesn't exist in the same way as it does in the rest of the North.

What are you on about? I'm 100% certain that anyone living in Manchester would consider it 'Northern'. Are you using the term 'The North' in a technical fashion, thus differentiating 'The North' from 'The North West'? Or are you implying that Manchester is not part of the 'real North'?

And it is parochial to be proud of a region. I grew up in the South East (although I was born in Scotland) and it was shit. There is nothing noble in being automatically proud of your region. Moreover, I hate all this 'if you were a Northerner you'd understand' rubbish. I live in London. I love London. But I also have friends in Bristol, and family in Stockport, and I love those places as well. We live in the 21st century with phones and trains and computers and everything - we are not confined to one small corner of a small island. Many, if not the majority of people living in Britain have connections all across the country. Isn't about time this whole North/South thing was hung out to dry?

We're really coming at this from different viewpoints aren't we?!

It's hardly North/South - think of the famous Yorkshire/Lancashire rivalry. Anyway, there's more to the UK than England. Try telling someone in Aberdeen that Newcastle is in the North!

But seriously, I think it's very patronising to suggest this is nothing but pariochialism. There are millions of people in the country who are proud of the region where they come from or live. If you really don't understand the difference then perhaps it's you who can't see the broader picture about life in the UK.

I don't think liking, or even being proud of your region is wrong - just automatically being proud of your region to the exclusion of all others.

Am I being patronising? I'm not the one implying other people don't understand my arguments because of their geographical location. I am also not the one arbitrarily dividing up England to suit my own prejudices. Is it really such a terrible thing to suggest that the region of England (and I use the term deliberately - to my knowledge there is no North/South divide in Scotland - although there is in Wales) you come from does not really add up to that much in the wider scheme of things? If I am wrong then how should I feel? Should I be chippy about Northerners and blather on about how much better London is than everywhere else? Even though my family roots are in the North of England and Scotland, and my post A-level education took place in Wales and the West Country? Pride in your region is one thing but some of the other comments on this thread (not yours D) imply pride in your region throught the denigration of others. That is parochial. Thinking that one half of the North of England is the 'true North' because the other parts have too many cities with strong identities - that is parochial.

Perhaps I am out of touch with the way people in the UK really feel. I hope not, I really do.

>I don't think liking, or even being proud of your region is wrong

I did kind of imply this didn't I? Sorry - I didn't mean to. I think my previous thread explains what I actually think.

Well I'd like you to point out any comments I made which are derogatory toward any other area of England or the UK...

>(and I use the term deliberately - to my knowledge there is no North/South divide in Scotland - although there is in Wales)

Moving away from the actual argument (!) I thought there was a perceived divide in Scotland between central Scotland and the north?

As for Northern Ireland, there is certainly an East/West divide...

>Am I being patronising? I'm not the one implying other people don't understand my arguments because of their geographical location.

Hmmm. That is a distortion of the truth if ever I saw it. All I suggested was that someone living in the South East may not understand the need for a local news service as much as someone living in a more remote area (and note that I did not use a north/south distinction), for the simple reason that there is an at least perceived London bias in national news broadcasts, therefore the need for the local news in the SE is potentially less because it is covered in the national media. That is categorically not the same as implying that the north is better than the south in some way. The only person to have done that so far is Jon, making a stupid comment ("I bet your daddy's working class" etc).

> Is it really such a terrible thing to suggest that the region of England...you come from does not really add up to that much in the wider scheme of things?

No. Likewise it is not such a terrible thing either to suggest that someone from the North-East (or North-West, or South-East, or anywhere else) be proud of their area. It is mainly the fault of the people who set up the "regions", but some of them are more "artificial" than others. This is the only part of what I have said that I feel could be construed as prejudicial.

> Thinking that one half of the North of England is the 'true North' because the other parts have too many cities with strong identities - that is parochial.

I never said that. That is a gross distortion of what I said. "The North" vs "Northern England" is just a technical distinction. I know many people from the North-West. And I know them enough to know that someone from Liverpool -- or the part of Cheshire which is close to Liverpool -- do not have an affinity with Manchester, or the part of Cheshire near to Manchester. The North-West is basically 4 or 5 regions in one. This is not arbitrary, it's fact.

It is you who comes across as some sort of self-appointed crusader trying to force all parts of the UK to be the same, and pull the same way. This is also, in all probability, a distortion of the truth.

Oh, and I think you'll find there is a strong distinction between the North and the South of Scotland.

Anyway, we are getting bogged down in pointless detail here. Every part of the UK has local pride. But there are only a few parts of the UK with well-defined "regions" as such. But this really is not the point. I have no interest in denigrating other parts of the UK, and if I have unwittingly done so, I'm sorry. But I will defend my right to be proud of my local area, to the bitter end. If you can't respect this, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Jase you said:

>And the fact that you think it parochial nonsense to be proud of your region proves my point. You won't find a northerner agreeing with you.

I think it's fair for me to read this as 'you are from the South - so you don't understand.' If that's not what you meant, I'm sorry. But this statement does not seem to be specifically about regional TV. I don't think I'm being stupid to misunderstand it.

And you accuse me of distortion of the truth - where did I say, or even imply, all regions of England should be the same? All I'm suggesting is that all English people often have more in common than is supposed. I'm not on a crusade, but I do get tired of people (and I'm not suggesting you are one of them) who get bogged down in the specifics of where they come from. It's not just people from the North. Londoners are just as bad with their North v South London nonsense.

BTW I'm sorry I misunderstood your point about The North and North West - but I did ask you if it was a techical distinction in an earlier posting and got no reply. I still think though that people from Liverpool and Manchester despite any mutual animosity would consider themselves Northerners. That's all I'm trying to say on that one.

> But I will defend my right to be proud of my local area, to the bitter end. If you can't respect this, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I not only respect it, I totally accept it. But my original points about regional news are not about people not being in touch with their area. I've mentioned (twice) that I have grown up in several parts of the country and have seen regional TV in all of them. London regional TV is local news - just because London is the administrative and financial cenrtre of the country does not mean regional news in London isn't as full of iinconsequential items as every other regional magazine programme in the UK. Come to London and watch Newsroom South East - you'll find out things about Enfield, Hackney and Peckham you never wanted to know! Is finding regional news programmes dull an insult to regional pride?

>>And the fact that you think it parochial nonsense to be proud of your region proves my point. You won't find a northerner agreeing with you.
>
>I think it's fair for me to read this as 'you are from the South - so you don't understand.'

Yes you are right on that one -- sorry. In fact you would not find most southerners agreeing with you either ;) It was not intended as a personal slur either. I think I was getting you and Jon mixed up here a bit as well....

>And you accuse me of distortion of the truth - where did I say, or even imply, all regions of England should be the same? All I'm suggesting is that all English people often have more in common than is supposed. I'm not on a crusade...

This was a flippant remark. I don't think you are on a crusade, I was trying to point out the danger of making assumptions. Probably should have put a smiley or summat on the end...

> I still think though that people from Liverpool and Manchester despite any mutual animosity would consider themselves Northerners. That's all I'm trying to say on that one.

Of course they would. And they'd be right. But they are not from the Northern region... (there is a difference)

> London regional TV is local news - just because London is the administrative and financial cenrtre of the country does not mean regional news in London isn't as full of iinconsequential items as every other regional magazine programme in the UK.

More so -- that's my point...

> Is finding regional news programmes dull an insult to regional pride?

Yes it can be somewhat in a region with virtually no network programmes coming out of it, therefore no regional representation. Without local TV (and other local media), areas like this might just die.

>> London regional TV is local news - just because London is the administrative and financial cenrtre of the country does not mean regional news in London isn't as full of iinconsequential items as every other regional magazine programme in the UK.
>
>More so -- that's my point...
>
>> Is finding regional news programmes dull an insult to regional pride?
>
>Yes it can be somewhat in a region with virtually no network programmes coming out of it, therefore no regional representation. Without local TV (and other local media), areas like this might just die.

All of this is fair enough. But I do remember finding HTV Wales local news very dull. 'Cardiff Man' we used to call it, coz every night the top story was a national/world story and its connection to a Cardiff Man (like The Onion's 'area man') You know the kind of thing: 'Cardiff man's brother held hostage in Beirut' etc etc. And yet Cardiff was a very exciting locality with lots going on. But I know TT is your ITV region and I confess I have never see their prog - so it could be Pulitzer Prize local journalism for all I know.

Keep on rockin' in the North East and mind the overlaps ;0)

Too right!! Party capital of Europe, Newcastle you know ;)

Well, TT news is not particularly exiting as such, it's solid journalism, a bit too dry at times and it takes itself a bit too seriously. But they do make a genuine effort to report the real news in a competent way, and more often than not I think they succeed. They don't go in much for that "Brother in law of some bloke who knows some terrorist group" rubbish, I know the kind of lazy journalism you are talking about.

As for Look North (NE/C), eurgh! I think we're all agreed that that is puerile, boring nonsense, with a crap presenter and not enough proper news by far. But the point is, done well, there is no reason why local news should be boring. Far from it. Sadly it is though, in many cases. But this is the fault of lazy journalism, as I said.

And then there's Look North (Y, L & NM) which has it's share of silly 'news', but the whole thing is done in a self aware, tongue-in-cheek sort of way. A sort of televisual Wake Up to Wogan...

And it's very good!