Nothing may be above criticism - but criticism doesn't have to be negative. Edge of Darkness was IMHO the best drama ever made for television. I'd love to blaspheme about a 'sacred cow' but I'm simply too pleased that it is considered to have attained that status. Sorry - no badmouthing from me.

Singing Detective - thought it was good at the time. need to see it again to comment.
I Claudius - Likewise.

Singing Detective - only problem was the title, which should have been "Nurse Wanks Crisp-Faced Man."

It is hard to criticise those three. I consider 'Edge of Darkness' to be better than 99% of classic films. 'The Singing Detective's only flaw is that it is not quite as good as 'EOD'. As for 'I Claudius'- maybe it would have looked better on film, but it may not have.

I tried to post something critical here earlier, and the form came back with an error message... let's see if this works first before I submit my next essay...

Well, that went through Ok, so I shall say:

'The Singing Detective' was good, mainly because of Michael Gambon. The story itself was yet another example of an British writer trying to copy Vladimir Nabokov's novels (books about books, writer's life turned into the novel, etc.), and not having the sheer nerve for it. However, because the M.Whitehouse faction turned it into a cause celebre, Potter became idolised, and that triggered his decline as a writer, into self-indulgent voyeurism from 'Blackeyes' onwards, culminating in the Karaoke/Cold Lazarus farrago, by which point both he and his fans regarded him as the living(and symbolically dying) embodiment of the greatness of the BBC (the 'Brimstone & Treacle' affair now forgiven and forgotten).

The best thing about Singing Detective is that M.Whitehouse went on 'Desert Island Discs' and ill-advisedly speculated about whether the rape scene was an actual event Potter had witnessed... so Potter's mum sued for defamation, and won.

'Edge of Darkness' meanwhile, was an average thriller completely overrated because it had better camerawork and acting than it deserved, and also because it caught the rise of mid-80s Green activism. But the basic script had stereotype characters (civil servants straight from 'Yes Minister') pure fantasy (the bit where the Bob Peck character finds a message his daughter left, through having a vision of her), and unrealism (miner's leader Godbolt takes the Gaia activists personally on their potholing trip - yeah, right). And probably other things as well, but that's all I can remember 15 years after I worked out why I didn't like it in spite of it looking so good.

I haven't seen 'I Claudius' but I'm told it's really good.

Sorry Jon, can't let this one go!

Edge of Darkness overrated? Not rated highly enough.
>But the basic script had stereotype characters (civil servants straight from 'Yes Minister')
Definitely not! One of the best things about Harcourt and Pendleton (the men form the ministry in the series) is that they weren't sterotypes. They were superficially stuffy English types but had far more complex motivations than you would find in an average political thriller (compare A Very British Coup for proof - it's good, but the characters are very black and white) Some of the best H & P scenes come in episode 6, particularly Harcourt's confrontation of a cabinet minister, and their mocking of Fusion boss Jerry Grogan. But they are good from the off - check Harcourt's "That's right, old boy. We've absolutely no intention of putting you in the picture" conversation with Craven in episode 1.
>pure fantasy (the bit where the Bob Peck character finds a message his daughter left, through having a vision of her),
The fantasy elements are what makes EoD special, and precisely what lifts it above the average. Some of the scenes where Bob Peck's Craven interacts with his dead daughter are terrifically moving and give the whole drama a hyperreal edge that has never, to my mind, been successfully imitated.
>and unrealism (miner's leader Godbolt takes the Gaia activists personally on their potholing trip - yeah, right).
Is this so unlikely? Godbolt resents being used by Northmoor, and helps Gaia as a way to destabilise Northmoor without doing so himself publicly. As he says to Craven in episode 5 - "I hadn't completely sold out you know."

Moreover, to dismiss in a couple of lines the fact that the camera work and acting was better than it deserved doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If it was brilliantly acted and directed (which it was) then it is excellent, at least on one or two levels. QED.

Edge of Darkness had more than good acting and good direction though, it was infused throughout with the spark of inventiveness and real vision. Parts are moving, some of it is tremendously evocative of the darkest moments of the 1980s (even though it was made slap bang in the middle - usually, attempts to capture an age made at the time end up far wide of the mark), and in terms of tension and action it has rarely been bettered (check Craven's infiltration of the MI5 computer centre at the Barbican and the ensuing chase; also the scenes at the end of Episode 5 - possibly the best ending of any episode of anything, ever.)
Ultimately, it's a sorry indication of the state of BBC drama that this series is *so* much better than anything they've done since. I don't think it could or should be imitated, but why aren't there more dramas that show this kind of boldness, range and vision?

Better acting and direction than it deserves?

Surely in a visual medium, these are actually important in what makes a programme great.

Also, no mention of Jedburgh- a character that defies stereotype at every turn and manages to be one of the most rounded TV characters ever depicted, in spite of the fact that we never find too much about him.

The fantasy elements add very many layers to the narrative- is Craven suffering hallucinations in his grief, or is it the ghost of Emma. Is Gaia just an organisation, or actually the soul of the planet?

I think 'Edge of Darkness' is the best thing ever to be shown on any television anywhere. This is not fan-loyalty, but a conclusion. The only criticism I can think of for 'Edge of Darkness' is that they didn't use a better quality of film stock (is it 16mm?)

>Also, no mention of Jedburgh- a character that defies stereotype at every turn and manages to be one of the most rounded TV characters ever depicted, in spite of the fact that we never find too much about him.

Yup - I completely forgot to mention Jedburgh. A brilliant character, and the major source of the show's humour (it has humour too!) Remember the scene where J is watching Come Dancing and says to Craven:
"Nobody dances like the British. You deserved the Falklands."
He has tremendous depth too - the scene with Craven and Jedburgh in the Fallout Shelter inside Northmoor is, again, not just one of the standout scenes of EoD, but one of the best scenes of anything anywhere.

>I think 'Edge of Darkness' is the best thing ever to be shown on any television anywhere. This is not fan-loyalty, but a conclusion.

Absolutely - I don't know if I would call myself a 'fan' of EoD - I simply thing the whole thing is pure quality from start to finish. And we haven't even mentioned the soundtrack, which is possibly the only justification for Eric Clapton's career.

>The only criticism I can think of for 'Edge of Darkness' is that they didn't use a better quality of film stock (is it 16mm?)
Maybe - but I kind of like it's washed out, grainy quality.

Yaeh, you're probably all right. I haven't seen EOD since it was first on, and I'm not sure if I ever saw all of it then. I was just accepting the challenge to have a pop at a sacred cow.

Is it on video, does anyone know?

>Yaeh, you're probably all right. I haven't seen EOD since it was first on, and I'm not sure if I ever saw all of it then. I was just accepting the challenge to have a pop at a sacred cow.

Nothing wrong with that, nice one!

>
>Is it on video, does anyone know?

It's on video and DVD (though the DVD is so bad you might as well get the video).

Is the DVD bad? Why? I was thinking of buying it...
The video is OK but they stick the episodes together (i.e they take off the credits) which is a bit annoying.

Basically the DVD keeps the edited format of the videos, but on 3 sides of DVD (they couldn't be arsed to do dual-layer discs. Chapters are few and far between- these two features make it the only DVD where it is more difficult to find the scene you want than the VHS.

The picture quality is no better than the video's and there are no special features whatsoever. And Paradox have the nerve to charge £34.99 for it.

Sorry about this, but I pre-ordered it months before it came out- you can imagine how I felt when I watched it.

Basically Al, when recordable DVD comes out and EoD is shown on digital, you could do a better DVD yourself.

Nobody minded my comments about Dennis Potter, so I take that they are the mainstream, accepted view of him.

Also, no one else can be bothered to watch 'I Claudius' either.

Dennis Potter: spot on.

"I, Clavdivs" however is fantastic, and Derek Jacobi is a genius. "Can't be bothered to watch it" doesn't come into it; the bloody thing hasn't been repeated for about a decade. The odd thing about it is that if you were to write a contemporary drama which involved two women having a whoring competition, or the sheer amount of incest depicted, you'd be had up before the ITC before you'd even finished your pitch - however here it was acceptable, because it all happened a long time ago, or, er, something...

... because it was a literary adaptation, and therfore culture. I wonder if you could get away with that line about a TV adaptation of, say, Ian McEwan.

I've got no particular axe to grind about IC btw, I'm just making a general comment.

>Also, no one else can be bothered to watch 'I Claudius' either.

Watched the first showing, watched the second showing, got the video, think it's wonderful. Just can't be bothered to write about it that's all.

But whilst we're on the subject...

About 15 yrs ago every stage play I saw seemed to have 2 or 3 actors who listed IC in their CV. It never mentioned that they were propbably only 3rd whore on the left or something.

Yeah - watched I Claudius (or I Clavdivs) on its 1980s repeat - and haven't seen it since. Remember it being excellent tho'. Potter: I rather enjoyed Karaoke/Cold Lazarus, but I'd need to see it again. What I saw of Blackeyes was crap, and that rock n' roll thing with Ewan McGregor wasn't up to much either...