She was astonishingly far up her own arse, wasn't she?

she got to much money too quick...& her books really do kinda suck...

she got to much money too quick...& her books really do kinda suck...

I thought she came across rather well. Really placcid and driven. I don't think she was up her own at all - it was a programme about 'her' so the content of it was bound to be focussed on 'her'. If you didn't want to know about her, why watch? Everyone just loves to jump on popular figures and declare their hate for them. Justin, if you concentrated so much lustre into ignoring what you dislike, much less emphasis would be put on it.

You chose to watch the documentary. And why? Probably so you could make the above comment. Not a total waste of your evening then...

alright a fair point...

>I thought she came across rather well. Really placcid and driven. I don't think she was up her own at all - it was a programme about 'her' so the content of it was bound to be focussed on 'her'. If you didn't want to know about her, why watch? Everyone just loves to jump on popular figures and declare their hate for them. Justin, if you concentrated so much lustre into ignoring what you dislike, much less emphasis would be put on it.

Not at all - if it's popular that's fine. Trouble is, This Life isn't anything like as popular as the media would have us believe (2 million on BBC2 at its peak - The Cops was far more 'popular' than that).

I just think that her sum total of work to date is slim and not particularly inspired. Compare her work rate on This Life (er, thinking up five pretty unattractive characters and writing just the first four episodes, and scraping the material together for one, and only one, book) with the much-slagged Ally McBeal, whose creator David E Kelley has written every single episode to date (over 50 shows). AMB is not brilliant either, but it displays God knows how much more imagination and wit than Jenkins's creation, which basically amounts to EastEnders with overgrown students saying fuck and insinuating blowjobs.
>
>You chose to watch the documentary. And why?

Essentially because the tennis highlights had just been on.

Probably so you could make the above comment. Not a total waste of your evening then...

No, I just got some sleep. I wasn't joking. I really did fall asleep, I did try, I promise.

I don't think it is a fair point. I usually agree with quite a bit that KS has to say (although Keith Allen's cock is a bit of a closed book to me...) but I think that anyone has a right to watch a show - the fact that they might not like the person it's about is neither here nor there. I don't think Justin is jumping on some 'let's get Amy Jenkins' bandwagon. Plenty of people (including me) can't stand her or the terrible stuff she writes. Moreover, the way the BBC is enthusiastically slapping itself on the back over This Life - a dreadful, dreadful, waste of broadcasting - three years after it disappeared is sickening. It was an over-hyped piece of trash then, and hyping it more by producing docus on its creator isn't going to make any difference. Besides - why not focus on some of the truly excellent TV writers the BBC has worked with - Tony Marchant, J C Wilsher or Troy Kennedy Martin for instance - before dealing with desperate wannabes like Jenkins?

By the way, kinder, placid has one 'c'.

Al just reminded me about something:

The BBC failed to commission a third series of This Life in time, and so missed the boat. Hence this self-congratulatory re-run, associated documentary on Jenkins, and Christ knows how many similar up-own-arse dramas about crisis-ridden twentysomethings (Hearts & Bones is only the most recent).

Can the BBC do anything right?

I must say though I did enjoy this life when I first watched it...

>Not at all - if it's popular that's fine. Trouble is, This Life isn't anything like as popular as the media would have us believe (2 million on BBC2 at its peak - The Cops was far more 'popular' than that).
>

Ah go on let it have a few column inches, tennis highlights get some.

>I just think that her sum total of work to date is slim and not particularly inspired.

Perhaps she needs to watch more moderately popular TV shows to draw hate and inspiration from!

>Compare her work rate on This Life with the much-slagged Ally McBeal, whose creator David E Kelley has written every single episode to date (over 50 shows).

Well we all know Americans are crazy capitalists.


>AMB is not brilliant either, but it displays God knows how much more imagination and wit than Jenkins's creation, which basically amounts to EastEnders with overgrown students saying fuck and insinuating blowjobs.
>>

Good to see you woke up for the exciting parts.


> I wasn't joking. I really did fall asleep,

Falling asleep in front of the TV? What a mundane detail of your life you have just shared with us. I can feel myself and other lovers of character-soap becoming addicted.

>By the way, kinder, placid has one 'c'.

What can I say? I'm no Amy Jenkins. If only I could intersperse beautifully spelt verbosity with twee remarks about chocolate biscuits...

>I usually agree with quite a bit that KS has to say (although Keith Allen's cock is a bit of a closed book to me...)

Why thankyou Al, and what a coincidental choice of metaphor - I like to think of Mr.Allen's cock as a source of reference too.


>but I think that anyone has a right to watch a show - the fact that they might not like the person it's about is neither here nor there.

Certainly, just like those who wish to be chilled by horror movies, of course you can watch a documentary on one of your most loathed media figures, y'know to give you that satisied sensation of venom as a spectator. Who knows what god-awful happiness you may have felt had you not watched it?

>Plenty of people (including me) can't stand her or the terrible stuff she writes.

Are you in an anti-cult cult by any chance?

>This Life - a dreadful, dreadful, waste of broadcasting - three years after it disappeared is sickening. It was an over-hyped piece of trash then, and hyping it more by producing docus on its creator isn't going to make any difference.

Yes that documentary was on at such a protruding time of night wasn't it? Who knows what innocent 'Red Alert' watching laymen may have succumb to loving the series.

>Besides - why not focus on some of the truly excellent TV writers the BBC has worked with - Tony Marchant, J C Wilsher or Troy Kennedy Martin for instance - before dealing with desperate wannabes like Jenkins?

Don't you see? Who of those has mastered the art of captivating an audience with climactic swear words?

I don't really consider TL a 'cult' series other than in the Alan Partridge sense of 'low viewing figures', but I guess you're right - the documentary was hardly on at prime time. In fact I didn't see it, so for all I know Ms Jenkins may have been sweetness, reason and light personified - but my earlier posting didn't claim otherwise. It's her output I object to primarily, and secondly her elevation to noteworthy status. But I don't really want to get into a scrap about this as I've said enough about TL on previous threads, and I have the tinsiest suspicion that you're winding me up - climatic swearwords eh? ;0)

ps: Actually, looking back I did say that I couldn't stand her - maybe unwarranted - but I have it on good authority from a friend in the publishing business that she's quite unpleasant (not the words my friend used!)

>ps: Actually, looking back I did say that I couldn't stand her - maybe unwarranted -

Wow Al, you must really fear my thoroughness to check for your own contradictions. The leg-work is much appreciated.


>but I have it on good authority from a friend in the publishing business that she's quite unpleasant (not the words my friend used!)

Oooh how nice to see the critical office friend as featured in 'This Life' lives on.

>for all I know Ms Jenkins may have been sweetness, reason and light personified

Yes she was 'This Life' the TV series personified.

>It's her output I object to primarily, and secondly her elevation to noteworthy status. But I don't really want to get into a scrap about this

But sometimes scraps aren't a matter of want, they are a matter of necessity especially when debasing something so important that it has 'primarily' and 'secondarily' riled you.


>I have the tinsiest suspicion that you're winding me up - climatic swearwords eh? ;0)

Not at all, I am a stern fan of climactic swearwords as it happens. I even own a box set. I don't however have any inclination to absorb myself in anything from 'All Creatures Great and Small' or whichever masterpiece was the lovechild of your list of favoured writers.

AJ's novel 'Honeymoon' was trashed by all reviewers a month or 2 back.

Getting attacked in SOTCAA should finish her off. She'll go back to being a lawyer.

Alright then - so I need a scrap. I see. Well I'm not having one. So there.

A couple of points though - the comments on Jenkins relayed to me were far from the off hand remarks of a bitchy colleague, more like the feelings of a large portion of the publishing world.

My favoured writers - check out Holding On, Between The Lines, Edge of Darkness - all excellent TV drama and light years away from All Creatures Great and Small (or This Life for that matter).

By the way - checking my postings was nothing to do with fear - just trying to be fair that's all!

If you really want me to get riled about This Life I can, but it'll be pretty dull for people to have to wade through it all again (and me!)

>similar up-own-arse dramas about crisis-ridden twentysomethings (Hearts & Bones is only the most recent).

I really enjoyed Hearts and Bones.
I found it well produced, well written and despite the heavy amounts of angst; quite humourous.

>Can the BBC do anything right?

Yeah. I think they did that right.

I've never really watched This Life more than a few times, but I still found it interesting to watch the documentary on Amy Jenkins...
I have no real opinion on her either way.
The piece of writing she said was her 'best' stuff, seemed to be trying a little too hard for my liking, although I did like the Kit Kat bit.

What would you rather see on TV?

>What would you rather see on TV?

See my previous message!

>
>>What would you rather see on TV?

I could've been amusing/facetious (delete where applicable) and written Ceefax, Watchdog Value For Money, or Bodger & Badger. But I won't...

(More or less) Anything written by any of the following:

David Milch, David Chase, Jimmy McGovern, Tony Marchant, David Renwick, Kay Mellor, Matt Groening, Greg Daniels, Larry David, Russell T. Davies, Steven Moffat, Steven Bochco, John Morton, Aherne/Cash/Morgan, Chris Morris, Peter Baynham, Lee & Herring, Garry Shandling, Victoria Wood, Tim Firth (although haven't seen Border Cafe yet), Quantick & Bussmann (if Junkies is anything to go by), Jack Rosenthal, Alan Bennett, and a fair few others I can't think of right now. All of them better than Jenkins - way better. Granted, they've all written their duds too, but their work's diverse, interesting and often provocative.

As far as I'm aware, none of these people have written a single episode of All Creatures Great & Small. Mind you, having never sat through an episode of it, I can't be sure of that. Additionally, none of them have been offered £600,000 for one chapter's work (and I read HoneyMoon's sample chapter in The Observer, ok, and it stank the place out).

Alright, Alan Bennett might have been, but I feel he earned it (30 years of writing).

Just because I hate This Life doesn't mean I want Where The Heart Is either, and I can't believe that's what you appear to be suggesting.

>What would you rather see on TV?

Not Mark Fucking Lamarr.

(That should get a stinging response.)

<puts tin helmet on - runs and hides>

>(That should get a stinging response.)

I wasn't trying to start an arguement with you...
I find it sad that because I go against the grain of what you suggest, you feel the need to think that way.

You won't get any 'stinging' responses from me. I don't give a fuck what you think.

Everybody knows my stance on the Lamarr 'issue' and I have no more to say about it unless someone happens to be talking specifics.

>I wasn't trying to start an arguement with you...
>I find it sad that because I go against the grain of what you suggest, you feel the need to think that way.

Apologies Ailie - got a bit carried away. It wasn't intended to sound offensive, but I appreciate that it must have done. (Almost as bad, it sort of negated my previous message, which was intended to be sincere.)
>

>Everybody knows my stance on the Lamarr 'issue' and I have no more to say about it unless someone happens to be talking specifics.
>
I have an episode of Room 101 from 1993 (Radio 5) and he was really funny on that. He chose some appalling rockabilly records (one by Matchbox, and one by a bloke called Jackie Lee Cochrane called "Dear Mom & Dad" which might be one of the worst things I've ever heard). He was good on that.

And I did laugh long and loud when he kept interrupting MC Hammer on The Word with "Stop - hammer time!"

I think it's Buzzcocks that I have a problem with, rather than Lamarr specifically. The whole thing reeks of writers not-good-enough to be writing additional material for Have I Got News?, and most of the pop stars on it are no better than what they're taking the piss out of (honourable exceptions: Tony Wright and Ian Dury).

Anyway, I've sort of wandered a bit. Sorry, Ailie. And while I'm about it, sorry kinder as well. This was only ever a question about whether someone deserves quite so much hype for being no better than plenty of other writers. You won't find much criticism of This Life around, which is not a reason to slate it in itself, but I do find myself wondering what the hell the fuss was all about (especially as I saw very little of the programme first time round, so I'm catching up).

I hope Amy Jenkins writes something I like one day. Genuinely.

>Alright then - so I need a scrap. I see. Well I'm not having one. So there.

Sorry to say it but I think you are in need of a good, hard scrap Al. We can all abstain from them but underneath it is obvious you are yearning like a monk.

>A couple of points though - the comments on Jenkins relayed to me were far from the off hand remarks of a bitchy colleague, more like the feelings of a large portion of the publishing world.

Come on you know these literary types are all full of propaganda. They really will say anything subversive to sell their surplus copies of 'TV Quick'.

>My favoured writers - check out Holding On, Between The Lines, Edge of Darkness - all excellent TV drama and light years away from All Creatures Great and Small (or This Life for that matter).

Are they in the league of 'Quantum Leap'?

>By the way - checking my postings was nothing to do with fear - just trying to be fair that's all!

Don't worry! You don't have to explain yourself to me. Often a man desires to scrap with himself.

>If you really want me to get riled about This Life I can, but it'll be pretty dull for people to have to wade through it all again (and me!)

I am intrigued indeed to see how riled you could get if you really let loose. And how do you relieve this rilement once it is raging inside of you? Switch 'This Life' off I guess...

>Anything written by any of the following:

>David Milch, David Chase, Jimmy McGovern, Tony Marchant, David Renwick, Kay Mellor, Matt Groening, Greg Daniels, Larry David, Russell T. Davies, Steven Moffat, Steven Bochco, John Morton, Aherne/Cash/Morgan, Chris Morris, Peter Baynham, Lee & Herring, Garry Shandling, Victoria Wood, Tim Firth (although haven't seen Border Cafe yet), Quantick & Bussmann (if Junkies is anything to go by), Jack Rosenthal, Alan Bennett, and a fair few others I can't think of right now. All of them better than Jenkins - way better. Granted, they've all written their duds too,
but their work's diverse, interesting and often provocative.

Who are all they then? Are they sportsmen?

>Additionally, none of them have been offered £600,000 for one chapter's work

Maybe the chapters they submitted weren't correctly spelt. I'm sure good grammar is highly priced not just by your placcid self.


>Just because I hate This Life doesn't mean I want Where The Heart Is either

I bet you didn't even like 'Cardiac Arrest.'

>And while I'm about it, sorry kinder as well. This was only ever a question about whether someone deserves quite so much hype for being no better than plenty of other writers.

That's no good Justin, don't apologise to me. You can't help the fact you don't appreciate on-screen sexual tension and very potently placed swearwords. There's obviously a distinct art to swearword coordination that you are yet to recognise. You bastard.

>I hope Amy Jenkins writes something I like one day. Genuinely.

Hey, watch it you're being all cutsie and diplomatic! Next thing you know you'll be the inspiration behind a new Jenkin's character.

Cardiac Arrest was brilliant. Forgot about John MacUre in that list.

KS - are you deploying some use of the word 'scrap' I wasn't previously aware of??? I have got riled about TL on two previous threads which are probably on the old topics list somewhere if you really wan to see me 'let loose' - but it's not terribly exciting.

Anyway, I bow to your exacting standards - I have never had my writing so thoroughly dissected - but I still think This Life is shite.

>KS - are you deploying some use of the word 'scrap' I wasn't previously aware of???

Well every word has a deep procreational meaning beneath the surface doesn't it?


>Anyway, I bow to your exacting standards - I have never had my writing so thoroughly dissected

Hey, I'll dissect any old thing, me.


>- but I still think This Life is shite.

It is and it's all going to end one day.


P.S Al what is it you do exactly with all these lists you acquire?

Lists? If you mean the old topic list it's on the SOTCAA site. There was a This Life thread - and on another one some bloke called Chesney Dilated got *very* riled with me - accused me of all kinds of dubious practices (eg: listening to Capital Radio).

Oops I was referring to Justin's extensive lists. I wonder if he has ever considered publishing a 'Names for your baby' book. Maybe you and your friends at TV Quick could help him out.

Oh, and I like the sound of this Chesney Dilated. He sounds like he's very perceptive.

>Maybe you and your friends at TV Quick could help him out.
???
>Oh, and I like the sound of this Chesney Dilated. He sounds like he's very perceptive.
You're very provocative aren't you? Perhaps you have a monk-like yearning for a 'scrap'? With Keith Allen. Probably.

You said you had publishing friends.

And wasn't it a cracking episode of 'This Life' last night? Some fantastic moments: the chicken drumstrick, the stoned kira, the Rachel moving in saga. Really Al, the reason I am provocative is because you don't know what you're missing out on.

You see I care about you and want you to experience pleasant, engaging TV.

Fair enough. Agree to differ time?

I suppose I'll have to go into remission then. I guess I'm just another notch on your scrapping posterity.

Not at all - it was a rare and beautiful exchange that I shall think back on and treasure ;0)

lol. Anymore corruptive exchanges and I may have to resort to becoming a luddite.

Indeed - perhaps it is time to draw a delicate veil over this thread and we may both return to a state of SOTCAA purity and innocence 0:o)

But once the 'delicate veil' is broken it can never be retrieved! I guess we'll have to fake the purity aka Britney Spears.

>But once the 'delicate veil' is broken it can never be retrieved! I guess we'll have to fake the purity aka Britney Spears.

What *are* you implying about our future Queen?

She has fake purities.

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, I wish I'd said that...

But then again, maybe it is all 'natural'. They have such obscure cosmetic proceedures these days, she has probably had a couple of bunions relocated.

We start with an Amy Jenkins' doc, we end up on Britney Spears' breasts - only on the SOTCAA forum can one experience this kind of miracle...

Yeah some people really do anything to keep a thread alive won't they? Though I do think the bunion theory is a potent one to pose.

Why don't you 2 just kiss and make up?

The truth is I have a bunion.

I thought we had kissed and made up. Or do we need to call ACAS?

Showing your age there, Al. Go on, explain what 'ACAS' means, for the benefit of the young ones who read this site.

Or were we all born before 1980?

And I thought Al was virile.

You seemed to think he was vile.

My virility questioned and implications of old age - can my self-esteem hold up?

ACAS was the conciliation service brought in to mediate between management and workers during strikes. I had a funny feeling it still existed in some form or other...

BTW I was born in 1970. All I remember of the news while I was at primary school is a procession of sideburned men huddling round braziers in factory car-parks.

"All I remember of the news while I was at primary school is a procession of sideburned men huddling round braziers in factory car-parks."

Yeah, the Jubilee was rubbish, wasn't it?

Jon! You are beautiful.

I must say I really like these messages in praise of me. They have a depth and acuity not normally found in the forum... apart from my stuff, obviously.

You can click on the red name to e-mail more of them to me, kinder.

Jon you're up their with Keith Allen's cock as far as I'm concerned.

>Jon you're up their with Keith Allen's cock as far as I'm concerned.

Anywhere else this would be a tremendous insult. But in the weird, wild world of SOTCAA...

Jon, you are truly honoured...

"Jon you're up their with Keith Allen's cock as far as I'm concerned."

Up where? And can I come down now?

So anyway, Amy Jenkins...

Noooooooooo!

I think Al is having a flashback. Al were you also around for the LSD era?

Tragically no. I may remember ACAS, but LSD, no. Of couse, they say if you can remember the sixties you weren't really there. The seventies, on the other hand...

Well, you 2 seem to be chatting amiably now, so my work here is done...

Thanks for fixing us Jon. You're the new Jimmy Saville.

Rob S: I want that last posting removed, before it starts getting mailed across the world...

>Well, you 2 seem to be chatting amiably now, so my work here is done...

<exit Jon in slomo to the strains of The Magnificent Seven (a la Brian in 'Spaced')>

(sorry -left my name off there...)

Al are you Ghostwriting for yourself? Is that to gain a higher quota for any novel chapter submisions you may be offering?

>Al are you Ghostwriting for yourself? Is that to gain a higher quota for any novel chapter submisions you may be offering?

Novel writing... thought about this once, but always have the words of Peter Cook ringing in my ears:

Cook: What are you up to at the moment?
Wannabe novelist: I'm writing a novel.
Cook: Neither am I.

>Novel writing... thought about this once, but always have the words of Peter Cook ringing in my ears:

You could kill two birds with one stone by wiriting a novel about your Peter Cook tinnitus.

Yes! And if I put in some relationship problems, and set it in Islington maybe it could be a bestseller...

Who said it should be auto-biographical?

Who said I lived in Islington?

Are you retracting a comment I saw as an invite?

I think Al's autobiography should be set in Chicago, to wow the American market.

Furthermore Al, Justin told me you're a teacher. That'll have to go. For the autobiography, I see you as this single guy who's obsessed with old theatre programmes, works in a shop that deals in them, spends all his time amassing arcane information about them.... which is how, implausibly, he finds love.

Wow I can see you have thought hard about this Jon. Or else watched an episode of 'Goodnight Sweetheart'...

No, the point is... oh, forget it...

Anyway [sigh], Amy fucking Jenkins...

>No, the point is... oh, forget it...
>
>Anyway [sigh], Amy fucking Jenkins...

Think we've been here before, haven't we? She's been very, very, very lucky.