I imagine Ulster Television didn't use it because their version didn't look anything like the Ulster logo.

So they introduced a nice computer generated version of their own which showed off the logo very well.

Two things I thought were strange

1) Why Grampian kept it on till 1998 (did they use it after the new [itv] logo or did they introduce a new one then?)

2) Why Border used it for a while for 'Border News' - totally inappropriate - apart from maybe the Westminster Clock Tower (pedant alert - Big Ben is actually the bell, not the clock), though I suppose you do have seagulls in the news too.

>I imagine Ulster Television didn't use it because their version didn't look anything like the Ulster logo.
>
>So they introduced a nice computer generated version of their own which showed off the logo very well.

I think Ulster had just introduced their new logo before the generic ITV one was introduced, and didn't want to change it. That was the reason given by Anglia, anyhow. Any hope anyone had of UTV sticking the ITV logo into their idents has been dashed by the new UTV idents.

My theory on why it didn't really work is the order things happened.
It began with the regional logo, and morphed via Big Ben etc, into the ITV logo, with the normally unrecognisable bastardised regional logo in the V.
If it had started saying "ITV" and then became the regional logo, it would have worked better.
Then it wouldn't look or sound daft when the continuity announcer said "This is Granada" or whatever when the screen was shouting ITV at you.
YTV changed it, so the big Y came out of the V and the final logo was the Y.
It was introduced at a time when all the stations were independent from each other and keen to stress that independence. So they didn't want corporate identity. Soon after its introduction, even Border was making all its own trailers.
Now, of course, it could work, especially in the Granada stations, where they have the same continuity announcers, who have to jump through verbal hoops not to say the name of the station. Or, as they do more and more frequently, just say ITV.

>This is what images appear as the ITV initials appear: Dove then Man & Woman kissing then Big ben then man throwing a shot put & finally two women in victorian dressing. Wait a minute Big Ben prehaps this is why prehaps they thought "hang on this ain't regional it has big ben in it. fuck you shove it your arse". And those who rarely used it like Central & Scottish probably realised after a couple of months so rarely used it or din't use it at all.

Westmister Clock tower thingy may not have been regional, but it of course featured heavily in the title sequence of a very important mainstay of the ITV schedules - News At Ten. That's the link. That's presumably why it was put in the ident.

>If it had started saying "ITV" and then became the regional logo, it would have worked better.

Yes - I always thought that would make sense! That is probably why Yorkshire changed theirs so that it dod end on the Yorkshire Logo. Doing so made it look a bit strange though, because the IT\* logo never did quite form, it was IT\ !

They kept the original ITV Yorkshire generic logo for trailers - though they did their own (or at least re-voiced them).

I used to have on tape an example of how they voiced the idents. This is how it was done:

Announcer: This is Yorkshire Television, broadcasting on the ITV Network

Logo does its ITV thang - bird, kissing etc.

Announcer: And now a reporter tries to track down a drugs ring in our Thriller 'The Diplomatic Corpse'

It is sad that I can remember this!

As an aside, were the 'Thriller' repeats really as out of order as stories suggest. Mid-80's we're talking, not Bravo.

The images that appeared in the 1989 generic sequence represent the different types of programmes found on ITV: dove (wildlife and nature), man and woman kissing in period costume (drama), St Stphen's Tower (news and curent affairs), shot put player (sport) and two dancers (light entertainment). Simple. Wonder what happened to children's programmes and religion?

Its major problem was that the 'V' was too small a space to contain some of the more complex regional logos, so it worked better in some regions than others. Tyne Tees probably came off worse, and one wonders why they bothered to use it. With Grampian and HTV the design managed to convey more, and Thames worked with it by relaunching their whole ident as a triangle.

Some stations fiercely guarded their graphical independence, and TVS, TSW, STV, Ulster and Anglia, all refused to use it.

Border seemed to make up for this and plonked it everywhere. Before Lookaround, Border News and Border Weather. It was also used for a while as the end caption on local productions with a copyright tag. For the clock however, the generic ITV tag was stuck in the corner.

It took me months to work out what was in the Tyne Tees ITV V.....turnour out the be only the top left hand corner of the
TT
TV
....how did they get away with it. Though YTV's efforts to superimpose the Chevron after all the swirly bit were over were cack handed

All this brings back memories! It's just a pity ITV has gone the way it has. I'm hoping Granada get themeselves sorted out when all the Carlton/United thing is out the way and bring us back the ITV we all know and want! I know Granada will be making HUGE changes to their ITV stations within the next 12 months.

>>I know Granada will be making HUGE changes to their ITV stations within the next 12 months.


Do tell

>The images that appeared in the 1989 generic sequence represent the different types of programmes found on ITV: dove (wildlife and nature), man and woman kissing in period costume (drama), St Stphen's Tower (news and curent affairs), shot put player (sport) and two dancers (light entertainment). Simple. Wonder what happened to children's programmes and religion?
>
>Its major problem was that the 'V' was too small a space to contain some of the more complex regional logos, so it worked better in some regions than others. Tyne Tees probably came off worse, and one wonders why they bothered to use it. With Grampian and HTV the design managed to convey more, and Thames worked with it by relaunching their whole ident as a triangle.
>
>Some stations fiercely guarded their graphical independence, and TVS, TSW, STV, Ulster and Anglia, all refused to use it.
>
>Actually STV or scottish tv actually used it look at the TV rooms web page and they have screen shots of the beggining & end but what baffles me is why Central had diffrent music

Central prefered to use their normal jingle rather than the special ITV theme.

I have both the Yorks and the Central Ident( with their own jingle) in REAL if anyone is interested?
Also, I remember the original Granda IT\* logo, cant remeber the adapted version though, anyone remember that?
Also what HUGE changes?
I WANT TO KNOW

>Also, I remember the original Granda IT\* logo, cant remeber the adapted version though, anyone remember that?

When I saw Granada use it, they just did not do an adapted logo. It was the ordinary IT\* logo with the blue triangle with three cuts in it, but the word GRANADA in the italic style below.

They dropped it v quickly.

>>Actually STV or scottish tv actually used it look at the TV rooms web page and they have screen shots of the beggining & end but what baffles me is why Central had diffrent music

I wonder when STV used it? I can only recall one with 3 discs forming the ident, and another with about 20 discs revealing the small ident and large namestyle.

>Also what HUGE changes?
>I WANT TO KNOW

Granada will be going the same way as United - dropping the itv generics and introducing their own dual brand indents incorporating a Granada and regional logo.
This is first hand information I received from somebody who works at Granada, who also informs me that whilst YTV will primarily still retain control of the 3 northern stations, regional continuity will play an important role during prime time.

>>Granada will be going the same way as United - dropping the itv generics and introducing their own dual brand indents incorporating a Granada and regional logo.
This is first hand information I received from somebody who works at Granada, who also informs me that whilst YTV will primarily still retain control of the 3 northern stations, regional continuity will play an
important role during prime time.<<

Will the Granada /|\ be in it or just the letters, as Granada is my reigonal station i want to know!!!
There has been a lot of juicy gossip flying around the forum today.
I cant understand why YTV will be dominant, afterall Granada priduces more progs. and has ownership of TTTV and YTV, it really annoys me.
Perhaps, they should each bid for the control rights, i.e. continuity, lets hope Granada dont get it, presentation will be awful.
Also, when is this happening? PLEASE!!!!
Anyone know any more about 1st October.? Something big apparently.
I will be speaking to a Granada Rep. soon
Watch this space!

Enough with the YTV bashing!!

As I've said before, presentation for Granada Media is based in Leeds, that's all! It's not as if YTV are controlling Granada media companies.

As for logos, Granada Media has a different pointy G from that used by Granada television.

>I have both the Yorks and the Central Ident( with their own jingle) in REAL if anyone is interested?
>I am I already have the central one but want the yorkshire one. Could you e-mail it at [email protected] thanks mate

Granada Media "GR^N^D^" have now changed their logo after the floatation, could this be paving the way for the new local idents...hope so...

The 1989 indent appeared not long after the Anglia dropped St George on his horse & Handel, and replaced it with the familiar CGI flag on their 30th birthday, and completly rebranded the station.
I suspect Anglia rejected it beacuse the new look cost them money and the generic format would have meant redesigning everything- they publicised it heavily at the time. Furthermore, it was the period on the run-up to the splitting of news services (into East & West) and the franchise mess in 1991.

>So give Anglia their due, they rejected it for the right reason: putting local interests first.

>Although the Meldrum website has all the designs for the 1989 indent.
> http://www.meldrum.co.uk/mhp/

>Two things I thought were strange
>
>1) Why Grampian kept it on till 1998 (did they use it after the new [itv] logo or did they introduce a new one then?)
>
No in October 1998 when the new one was introduced they dopped it but kept the same tune

>2) Why Border used it for a while for 'Border News' - totally inappropriate - apart from maybe the Westminster Clock Tower (pedant alert - Big Ben is actually the bell, not the clock), though I suppose you do have seagulls in the news too.

>>>Actually STV or scottish tv actually used it look at the TV rooms web page and they have screen shots of the beggining & end but what baffles me is why Central had diffrent music
>
>I wonder when STV used it? I can only recall one with 3 discs forming the ident, and another with about 20 discs revealing the small ident and large namestyle.
>
> I have seen the re-edited of Central which is bizare and looks stupid & Scottish on TV archive but what baffles me is that the tune finishes before the animation & what is more baffling is the fact that the music is slower than usual but the animation still finishes afterwards you know when the last sort of looud sound before it trails of the V is formed by then but on scottish it makes it up afterwards.

Look it's Friday, i'm tired and so i'm baffling on if you want to see it then go to TV Archive not TV ark

does some oen have the fucking Granada or channel version as according to you lot only Ulster, TSW, TVS & Anglia haven't used them also does anybody know if the Thames re-edit had the same beggining or not

I have thames ident
they used the normal theme tune and graphics

I cant remember Granada EVER using the ident they were given, apparently there was an adapted one, never saw that either! They did just use the ITV coporate one with GRANADA in italics, I have checked it out on an old tape.

>Also, I remember the original Granda IT\* logo, cant remeber the adapted version though, anyone remember that?
http://www.cjetech.co.uk/itv/ has all the logos, even those that weren't ever used.

>does anybody know if the Thames re-edit had the same beginning or not

I think it had the updated Thames Logo at the start too.

I think it worked best in London cos you had the 2 different versions.. I think Thames had slightly different music - it didn't have the sax bit at the end which LWT (and I think the other regions) had

>I think it worked best in London cos you had the 2 different versions.. I think Thames had slightly different music - it didn't have the sax bit at the end which LWT (and I think the other regions) had

Indeed the Thames on ended dramatically, but the LWT one faded out, like Border