I think satire is the lowest form of comedy.
I cannot explain this, or discuss it. I just do.

Standup, when done properly, can be an absolute delight, and at least you know it hasn't been sanitised and re-edited into a producers personal view of 'perfection'.

I agree - if you get the right stand up then it's non stop fantasticness (if such a word exists), but if you get a lousy stand up then it's really bad - moreso than a lousy show etc.

examples of great stand ups include: Alan Davies, Billy Connoly, Eddie Izzard to name but a few.

and of course, it's all subjective.

fantasticness? aww sweet! Hey Joe, I'm off to Turkey on Monday, want me to bring you some of that vodka that you like so much back?!

just an inch of that stuff was deadly....

a bottle would be a life time supply :O)

A drop in your ready brek every morning, you'd never frown again!!

>I think satire is the lowest form of comedy.

Am reminded of an interview Oliver Stone gave at the time Natural Born Killers was released in the UK. He described his work as "satire" and I remember thinking it was a perfect term for material which didn't have to contain any actual jokes or anything that was funny. God, what an overrated individual he is. (Stone, not God - in this case at least, seeing as God hasn't yet ripped off a Tarantino script and rewritten it badly, or made a crap film about Jim Morrison. Not to my knowledge, anyway.)

See also Rory Bremner, obviously. And probably That Was The Week, too.

God, what an overrated individual he is. (Stone, not God - in this case at least, seeing as God hasn't yet ripped off a Tarantino script and rewritten it badly

But don't you see, it was God, cos he like, controls everything!

>But don't you see, it was God, cos he like, controls everything!

I realised that - unfortunately, after I hit "post message".

I think I'd better explain my original point in more detail. Yes, there are some great stand ups out there, I don't mean all stand up is shit. What I meant was that for the past twenty years, it's had a virtual monopoly on comedy and this isn't healthy.

Personally, I've always found the best theatrical based humour (sketch, sitcom, film) much more funny and satisfying than stand up. It also has to make less compromises. Its living doesn't necessarily rely on amusing a bunch up dunderheads from an office party or stag night, and appealing to their limited idea of humour.

The stand up explosion has made broadened the number of people in comedy, but often narrowed the range of comedy on offer in the process. One of the reasons I think 'The League of Gentleman' was a hit (whether you like the show or not) was it was comedy that had nothing to do with the stand up circuit, and could thus cover a range that didn't have to pander to whatever a bunch of wallies at on a night out at Jongluers could appreciate after eight pints.

I just think comedy fans deserve more variety. I'd be interested to hear if any stand ups out there are secretly bored with the limitations of their profession. I think it needs discussing.

Oh, and quite right, I hate satire too.

Is saying you don't like satire sometimes an excuse for being a selfish cunt?

Satire and surrealism have gone in and out of fashion with each other over the past four decades (60's satire, 70's surrealism, 80's satire, 90's surrealism). Most satire nowadays is pretty rank, but then again, there's only a small bunch of tall posh twats working in the genre.

That said

There's thousands of people homeless, millions in poverty, human rights abuses all over the world, but all the young of today want to do is go to some smoky club and hear jokes about zebras. It's not pompous to sometimes want comedy with meaning or with a social conscience surely? And better than cocaine addled middle classed Avalon boys dissapearing up their own ringpipe. These people don't give a fuck about anything but their careers, and it wouldn't surprise me if there was a fair few Tories amongst them. This is not a healthy state of affairs. Surely we can find a middle ground between this shower and the dreaded Mr. Bremner.

Yes. It's called Mark Thomas.

Does anybody think Mark Thomas has actually acheived anything with his show?

Ooo, this thread is very twisty-turny!

As far as I'm aware Avalon is one of the most cocaine free environments in show biz.
And they seem to me to have more than their fair share of acts who are interested more in producing interesting and groundbreaking comedy, than advancing their careers.

I also think it's fine for comedians to not really care about making a difference to the world. If they want to do that then surely they should become politicians. Not to say all comedians have to not give a fuck, just to say that being a comedian can just mean trying to make people laugh, (not change their mindset or stop injustice.)
I don't think there are many satirists who've actually made much of a difference to anything. Generally the people who take things seriously are the ones who get things done. Or am I wrong? Any examples of satirists who've changed the world? And who were funny?
The Sex Pistols maybe

Re: satire

[sigh]

It shouldn't need repeating, but the only worthwhile comment was by Peter Cook, who said something like:

"Ah yes, the great satire of the Berlin cabaret of the 30s... and how it prevented World War 2"

And that's from someone who was involved in the "satire boom" of the 60s...

Hrm. Yes, satire as a tv form of comedy is complete.... well... youknow. But written satire (viz Evelyn Waugh) is still entertaining.

Well, if you know how to read, that is. Mayhaps tv makes it all too easy to get the jokes...

Yes, see also Philip Roth. Perhaps we should distinguish political/current affairs/media satire (Weekending/Spitting Image/Bremner basically), which is mainly rubbish, from literary satire, which is often more character-based. But it's the TV/stand-up stuff we're concerned with on this site.

Just because something is labelled 'satire' in your television guide, it doesn't mean it is. Don't presume, for instance, that The 11O'clock Show is political satire. It isn't. It's merely a limp vehicle for blowing raspberries at celebrites. If you want political satire may I suggest Orwell's Animal Farm.

Mark Twain wrote brilliant satires, so did Swift, James Joyce, (Ulysses satirises the popular novel and the Church.)

Rutland Weekend Television. Have I Got News For You is more than a topical news quiz.

There is nothing wrong with satire. The problem is bad scripts making their way along the lovvy network.

Although comedy rarely directly changes the world, it does change states of mind...


So basicly it always changes the world.

Or not, if Iain Lee is in it.

Too many simple cracks, and my posting seems to have been misinterpreted.

>Is saying you don't like satire sometimes an excuse for being a selfish cunt?
>
No, all i meant was that 'satire' is easy to do. It's like swearing is an easy way of making your arguement appear passionate and supported, when infact it's a big pile of wank. See it works.

Any examples of satirists who've changed the world? And who were funny?
>The Sex Pistols maybe
>

You may be right there, Rich - have you seen Filth & The Fury yet? Some of the footage is just hysterical - although in the case of Sid Vicious's words of wisdom, I should perhaps add the adverb "unintentionally". Or maybe he was an ironic genius. (I doubt it, though.)

One of the most disturbing/funniest moments: the Christmas Day gig of 1977 when they played a benefit concert for striking firemen, which their kids attended. 'Here we see the Pistols playing that family favourite "Bodies".' (Cutaway regularly to seven-year old children dancing disarmingly. Presumably, this satire did change their worlds.)

>and my posting seems to have been misinterpreted.

Roll with the punches deary.

As many different people alway interpret many different things.

I interpret that you are of high intelligence.

Infact... i fear i may be falling in love with you.

But enough with the satire already, as it is truly far passe by now.

;)

>and my posting seems to have been misinterpreted.

Roll with the punches deary.

As many different people always interpret many different things.

I interpret that you are of high intelligence.

Infact... i fear i may be falling in love with you.

But enough with the satire already, as it is truly far passe by now.

;)

Oh dear.... yet another one...

"As far as I'm aware Avalon is one of the ost cocaine free environments in show biz."

No, someone's just gone out and bought some more.

[Sorry, Richard. Not aimed at anyone at all.]

What??? You mean there are more???


Where? Where are there more?? How can this be??? Can there be a pattern immerging????


Can this be a job for Batman and Robin????


dalalaladalalalalalalalalaa!!!

standup is the highest form of comedy surely?
just one man (or woman) and a mike. what could be more challenging? plus its always live and has to be done right first time. sketches and sitcoms are easy by comparison.
sketches and sitcoms can be good but you have to look for the good ones.
with standup you have to look for the bad ones. not that you'd want to.

This just in: Gusset Weekly is officially the lowest for of comedy.

m

"lie down" is the lowest form of comedy.

Good enough for Victor Lewis-Smith's column in the Standard?

The line between good satire and bad satire is pretty narrow, I think. Certainly it's useful to present an alternative POV, and if it includes GENUINELY funny jokes, then it can be very powerful.

I've done stand up, but I see it as one part of a range of comedy that I do. Also, the time lapse between writing a joke on my computer and it actually getting a laugh from an audience can be very frustrating. Stand up lets me get instant laughs, and hpefully keeps me tuned to what is funny.

Sitcom, Stand Up, Satire, Sketch, they are all quality forms of comedy. All have their qualities some like some, some like others. I however like then all.