No you're right. I sent them a detailed out-line for a television play and the turds didn't even look at it. I thought my idea was great (and so did everyone I showed it to.) The BBC only runs these training courses to hid its shitty nepotism.

>No you're right. I sent them a detailed out-line for a television play and the turds didn't even look at it. I thought my idea was great (and so did everyone I showed it to.) The BBC only runs these training courses to hid its shitty nepotism.

That's it - they are SO narrow minded about the material that gets sent to them, they won't even consider anything unless it's a sitcom or you're an established name. It's a sad state of affairs, but the actual producers seemed so keen to get new people and new ideas in but their hands are tied. The first thing they said to us when we went in was 'We need new writers, fresh ideas', then spent the rest of the day telling us we had to write like Americans. My advice - go to independent TV companies - BBC's loss.

I have had my fair share of maltreatment by the BBC (failing to pick up Time Gentlemen Please, dicking our series around, cancelling it) and feel unappreciated by them.
However, I think it is a mistake to start talking about nepotism and giving in. The way you succeed in this business(if you are any good) is to work hard until someone notices you. So if you've written a play (v. unlikely that anyone is going to commit the hundreds of thousands of pounds to make it with a new writer) then put it on in a local theatre (or hall) or take it to Edinburgh. If it isn't suitable for the stage, then write one that is.
I have been writing profesionally for 10 years (and have to be thankful for the BBC for giving me opportunity, if not much money in the early days) and I am still learning a lot. I couldn't have possibly written a sit-com even two years ago (not one that would have been much good anyway).
The reason there are lots of crap writers working on TV is because there are not many good writers (n ot due to nepotism) and although people can get overlooked, this is quite unlikely if they are genuinely talented and perservere. Unfortunately a lot of people can't take one knock back and then give in.
a) if you've just started you probably have a lot of improving to do (maybe try writing short stuff or sketches to learn)
b) just cos someone says you're no good doesn't mean you are (but it doesn't mean you aren't either!) You should use rejection as a spur. Show the twats how wrong they were.

Unfortunately none of this can come to you on a plate and as I've said elsewhere it took me 5 years of solid work before I started earning enough to live on. I took shows to Edinburgh and lost at least 2 grand a time on them. You have to invest your time and whatever money you can afford. Because at the end of the day if the public want to see your stuff then you will get the work.
You have to make contacts and then if the people you've worked with like you they will offer you more work. This isn't nepotism. It's the same deal in any line of work. I tend to work with actors that I know "get" my stuff and who I've enjoyed working with (or who I've seen being good in something else). It's the same deal for writers - except it is much harder to find really good writers.
I'm rambling. I hope there is some useful info in there for you.

Could you get the report on neopitism from my mummy's office, please?

"nepoitism".

i can't type.

"nepotism".

i still can't type.

i have to agree with everything Richard said - if you believe in yourself, keep at it. Its true that some people can't take rejection (its also the problem that some people put all their hope into their only idea or script) I'm prepared for the fight ahead, it will take years but for all comedy writers out there I'm sure people will agree - we need you!

Er, should have read 'hide' for 'hid'

Certainly at the beginning, you need someone to just say "I like this". I co-wrote a script in 1993 with a friend from college and we sent it to Radio 4, but when we'd heard nothing after six months, we sent it to John Whiston who'd just been executive producer of Inside Victor Lewis Smith (patchy, but what highlights!). He loved it, but didn't know what to do with it. So we tried R4 again, and it piloted in 1996. Since then I've ended up doing other things - some writing, but not really comic - while my co-writer went into teaching. I haven't sent anything off in about three years, but I might one day. What I do know is that my writing in general has improved a lot over the last five years - I think it's important that you don't get everything on a plate from day one as otherwise you'd take things for granted.

So don't give up - have you thought of sending your play to Radio 4 Drama Dept instead? Or is it too visual?

Good luck anyway.

I sent my idea off to the BBC about five years ago. Since then I haven't written anything (well I've half a page of my novel stored somewhere.) Justin your idea about writing for Radio 4 is rather inspiring. I hadn't thought of that. (One of my heroes, Joe Orton, started on the radio.) However I couldn't re-work anything I've written because the humour is very visual. Besides I've pretty much given up the idea of being a writer now anyway. I don't know what I'm going to do with all my old corduroys.

>I sent my idea off to the BBC about five years ago. Since then I haven't written anything (well I've half a page of my novel stored somewhere.) Justin your idea about writing for Radio 4 is rather inspiring.

As Richard Herring said, TV is reluctant to take a chance on a newcomer, so radio's nearly always the place to start. We had a good start with our script, and Radio 4's script editor at the time really liked it, but what happened was we got assigned a succession of producers who all stayed around for what seemed like a couple of weeks before moving on. In the end, we got a young but enthusiastic producer who was very helpful but was at the mercy of various people higher up, who kept wanting to change quite fundamental things about our idea. In the end the pilot was rejected by R4 because they felt it lacked vision - so I wish we'd stuck to our guns, really.

However I couldn't re-work anything I've written because the humour is very visual.

Try writing dialogue - it's difficult to start with, but the practice is worth it. Most importantly, it's the idea not the execution you should start with.

Besides I've pretty much given up the idea of being a writer now anyway.

i go through stages where I think I can't be bothered. Mind you when I get the urge....I wrote a film screenplay for the Orange/Pathe Prize in 1998, along with about 1000 other entrants. Obviously I didn't make the shortlist or anything, but it was great fun, and I was so enthusiastic about the idea that I wrote the whole thing in under six weeks (that's a full screenplay of 90 minutes).

Never say never again, Gee. Or anyone else, come to that.

>Obviously I didn't make the shortlist or anything, but it was great fun, and I was so enthusiastic about the idea that I wrote the whole thing in under six weeks (that's a full screenplay of 90 minutes).

I know what you mean about writing just because it's fun. That's the reason why me and a friend wrote a sitcom for this BBC Talent thing (which is obviously not going to do anything), and also why i wrote a script for the Lloyds Bank Film Challange (which they stopped running before i got a chance to enter it - bastards!)

Its always more fun to write things for..err...fun. But, having said that, i still sponge off my parents (I'm going to university later this year), so what would i know about having to make a living from these things?

>Its always more fun to write things for..err...fun. But, having said that, i still sponge off my parents (I'm going to university later this year), so what would i know about having to make a living from these things?
>
God, that makes me feel very old. I don't make a living from writing, although I do bits and pieces here and there. I've hardly ever been paid for writing comedy though, so make of that what you will.

I would, should someone wish to take me up on it, consider a writing partnership. If someone is prepared to do all the work, then I am prepared to take all the credit and money. Or simply send your ideas to me and I will plagiarise them. In short, I am an Andrew Ridgeley looking for a George Michael.

Why don't Justin, Gee, and me get together to form a comedy writing/performing combo, like The League Of Gentlemen? I suggest we call ourselves 'The Losers'.

>Why don't Justin, Gee, and me get together to form a comedy writing/performing combo, like The League Of Gentlemen? I suggest we call ourselves 'The Losers'.

If we were a league, we'd be known as Beezer Homes. Or Vauxhall Conference. (Sorry, can't remember who does the divisions below 3. Not interested in football anyway. I don't hate it. I just have no opinion on it, and know about as much.)

Go on, hate football. Please

>Go on, hate football. Please

I would - except I don't hate it. I just don't much like it. It's rugby I really hate.

Is there some football tournament about to start? I think I've heard someone talking about it - maybe on the television or radio. Not sure

Surely Justin and Gee should team up with Les Dennis
Does anyone get my contrived joke for people of a certain age?

>Surely Justin and Gee should team up with Les Dennis
>Does anyone get my contrived joke for people of a certain age?

Dustin Gee - do I win a crisp fiver for remembering? Thought not. I can't "do" Vera from Coronation Street though, so I'm screwed on that front.

(Incidentally when Dustin Gee passed on and made the world of variety a quieter and more sombre place, I seem to remember they had problems replacing him in the panto he'd been doing with Les Dennis. They decided on Jim Bowen. Even my twisted imagination can't really deal with that one...)

Dustin Gee was a more reliable partner than Les' wife.

Yes, I remember when Dustin Gee died.

The presenter on Midlands Today said that Jim Bowen was taking over Gee's role in panto. Gravely, he said that Bowen had less than a day to learn his lines.

I think we were supposed to admire this as an example of selfless devotion to keeping the show going. But in reality, it would have just meant that people who had tickets would have to watch a sub-standard performance, which would have been better if they'd re-scheduled until Bowen knew what he had to do. If I'd had a ticket, that's what I would have preferred.

Still, that's showbiz, eh?

If I'd had a ticket I would have wanted to see Dustin Gee, moved around the stage on strings.

Abracadaver.

>Dustin Gee was a more reliable partner than Les' wife.

Funny, isn't it, that she dumps him just when people finally start to know her name, and not just "Les Dennis's wife".

Cynical? Me?

Re: 'Abracadaver' (above)

This could be a whole new sitcom idea! There's this successful TV double act, and one of them dies, so the other one decides to keep the whole thing going by having lots of technical wizardry to animate the corpse of his former partner on stage (cf. "Randall & Hopkirk (Deceased)"). Yet the technical controls don't work totally accurately... with hilarious results!

Working title: "Snigger Mortis"