And who got caught out by the ad break eh?

Grue-vay.

>And who got caught out by the ad break eh?

SOTCAA Morris fans know better.

Utter utter shit.

The most dispiriting sight.

I'm sorry but this is fucking poor - flogging a dead (underage) horse.

But there's so little swearing! This is a breath of fresh air for latenight TV.

>Utter utter shit.

Care to elaborate?

You could do better, Labia.

BE Sex was never this unsubtle. The celebrity targets were never that feeble. The cast don't appear to care.

Totally unfunny. I mean, *text message* jokes?!

I would say that he can do better than this, but I no longer know.

FRV, Sarah Smith and Simon Pegg. Says it all, really.

That was an excellent episode i think, the most fantastic moment for me was Barbara Follett, the Labour MP for Stevenage where I live being duped by Morris. How that made me laugh, and to believe the dumb bitch was elected.

Where were the Scouts?

I think the Special was doomed by the months of anticipation and was bound to be an anticlimax. I thought there was a lot of good material, but marred by reliance on celeb vox pops, and the over indulgence on stylish computer graphics.. Brooker's doing I bet. It was a bit too fast impact to enjoy properly I thought.

>FRV, Sarah Smith and Simon Pegg. Says it all, really.

Fool!

I thought it was better than all the other Brass Eyes.

Morris expanded the format of Brass Eye and only die hard fans can complain.

I *agree* that some of the other actors were sometimes iffy. But overall superb.

Pretty dire, I thought.

Sweet baby animals, check out the Reach4 forum!

"Phedophilier is not funny"

"I cant beleive that this is shown about peadofiles, stop it now!"

http://www.channel4.com/forums/c4_forumframeset.cfm?forum=reach4

Any subtler and it would have been ITV.

Mostly great ideas, one or two genuine laugh out loud moments... but all put together in a dull, overplayed, and badly-focused manner. Few ideas were carried through to any kind of a conclusion, and there were too many exact reworkings of previous Brass Eye sketches.

I always said Morris should do something new instead of going back to old ideas. It's like putting a weak bonus track at the end of a reissue of a fantastic album. Brass Eye itself was phenomenal, and in retrospect it should have just been left at that. Light blue touch paper and retire etc.

The first three minutes of 'Crime' have already pissed all over it. Sorry, but a diehard Morris fan speaks.

Doon looked nice though.

listen to talksport now

>You could do better, Labia.
>
>BE Sex was never this unsubtle. The celebrity targets were never that feeble. The cast don't appear to care.
>
>Totally unfunny. I mean, *text message* jokes?!
>
>I would say that he can do better than this, but I no longer know.

Firstly, I was too busy watching the show. I figured it would be only polite to view it in its entirity before making fleeting comments.

Certainly, the special was not subtle in dealing with the issue of paedophilia. The image of a 25ft phallus would seem to be more suited to Dom Joly than Morris. However, it is necessarily explicit. Think of the hounding media campaigns we have endured over the past year - the hysterical, almost tribe-like mentality of the tabloid press. The very notion of justice dissipates as bewildered mobs run rampant looking for a reason ... any reason. I think this euphoric, almost neurotic mindset came across in the show.

As the for the interviewees, I'd rather see countless M.Ps show their naivety and idiocy than Bruno Brookes; after all, these are the people who possess the responsibility to change paedophile laws etc.If you find it funnier to see Bernard Manning say, "this is a fucking disgrace", then fine. Good.

I don't think it stands up to the other siz, but by no means is it "utter shit".

hilarious. the show, and some of the reactions to that show. I don't know what Phil Collins was bothered about, Blackwood looked the stupider cunt.

"keep away from the man with the squinty eye" oh fucking magic. (serious)

i can understand why some people were disappointed. it did feel a little rushed in places but some of it was fucking exellent. someone should mark each scene out of 10. 10/10 for 'penis shaped soundwaves'.

On the whole, I would also say 'utter shit' is a bit steep. It did, however, go over a lot of the same ground as other BEs, and TJ's comparison with a bonus track is apposite. Although I would be tempted to compare it to a quite enjoyable remix of an old favourite.

If the BE Special is "Utter Shit" then the rest of the series must then be "Very Shit" or "Extremely Shit".

I suppose the one thing I missed the most from the special was the interviews; MPs and celebs were simply recruited to read out NONCE SENSE campaign statements etc, rather than be grilled under spotlight. One of the things I love best about BE is Morris' ability to send his interviewees in a circle, clockwise, then anti-clockwise, until they end up nowhere and back at the beginning of the end. Not to mention if he had taken this route, he would have made a bigger tit of the plebs than having them hold up a sign marked, HOECS. It smacked of a little laziness perhaps ...

i've got talksport on now. talking about brasseye among other things, not very interesting.

"Dire", "Utter shit"...

now I remember why I scurried away from this board in the first place.

I don't think that the humour in Brass Eye is particularly ground-breaking - getting laughs through shocking material is fine, but if you use taboo subjects as the basis of your comedy, surely it ceases to become shocking - shouldn't we just tick off the various subjects as they are 'tackled'? And stitching people up camera is hardly rocket science (although I did enjoy the 'Internet the size of Ireland' line). Don't get me wrong, I do think that Chris Morris is funny - I just think his formula is starting to wear a bit thin.

I thought that it was just such a completely easy target that it couldn't really be subtle about very much.

I also thought we knew so much about what was going to happen that loads of it lost it's impact, mostly the celeb hoaxes.

If anyone goes to the Channel 4 Reach forum the board is currently suffering something of a meltdown with dozens of amusingly long and angry messages written by people disgusted with the Brass Eye special. There are also complaints that the number to complain to Channel4 is constantly engaged. At present they appear to be forming something of a frenzied anti-Morris/anti-Channel 4 lynch mob. I would suggest Chris Morris and the bosses of Channel4 keep a lookout of their windows for 25 ft cocks being erected in their gardens.......

Isn't it a case of too much material? Usually the Brasseye articles last a few minutes each, none of these seemed to be extended more than 30 seconds.

so to speak. the text message thing was part of the context for 2001. I have only watched it once and the crime one is being taped, so I have to wait. The first few minutes of crime do not piss all over it at all as far as I can see. Wasn't sure if the guy he was interviewing was a 'real' kiddyfiddler or not so I don't really know what to make of that, but I really liked it. I liked the low key but overused graphics, the show had more ideas in any comedy show in recent/not so recent memory, some bits worked, some didn't. I suspect the 'Utter shit' thing is another hoax, and all will be revealed in cookdandbombd as a way of making us all praise it as a clever manipulation of the fans or something I don't fucking know, but suffice to say, it was very very good after one showing. I liked the Julia Davis 'shit presenter' character. I didn't enjoy 'Animals' when I first watched it - some of the jokes in that were a bit lame, like the cat head under pyramids nonsense. This, despite the massive anticipation, was worth the wait in my opinion.

kiss me you fools
x
scarebear

>getting laughs through shocking material is fine, but if you use taboo subjects as the basis of your comedy, surely it ceases to become shocking?

Surely what's more shocking is the gullibility of a Member of Parliament believing 'Trust-Me' trousers are available for online paedophiles?

You're missing the point, Jonesy

Look, I deliberately distanced myself from the cancellation chatter because I didn't want to become jaded beforehand. Three hours ago I was walking down a street with Joe remarking on how much I was looking forward to it. We expected it to be different, and probably worth the wait.

The subtlety is a question of letting the jokes brew up. It was far too dense, yet not full of ideas which worked in a seamless way a la 'Crime' or any of the original series. The pacing was very poor and the new presenters were terrible, with deathly badinage that was not a patch on previous examples in Morris's canon.

The celeb hoaxes were feeble because it was a rehash of an old formula. Ofcourse Bernard Manning isn't a million miles away from anyone on tonight's edition, but that doesn't mean CM should continue with the fictitious organisation route. It's very boring now. I would have thought that Morris had the nouce to set a new standard for something or other, rather than relying on an old approach which has been milked by others until its nipples are red raw. He's capable of this.

Good example of the rehash was the use of overworked visual effects, a la the original series and ofcourse TDT. In those shows they added to the joke or the pacing. Here they're just placed in the show for the sake of it.

There was no passion in it as far as I could see it, and it pained me to have not laughed once by the ad break. I also don't think I need to hold off writing 'Utter utter shit' until the end, because I sent that at the ad break when I'd simply had enough. If it's not entertaining after 15 minutes then it's simply not entertaining.

There was no joy to it. It was an edit of Morris's value judgement of himself, going through the motions and reviving characters for the sake of it.

I had very high hopes, but this was an utter waste of everybody's time.

The bit where the show was interrupted by the Pegg character was very limp, Chris overplayed it and there was no real conclusion to it or any kind of justification.

For the most part, the celebrity hoaxes were rather dull. I found it too uncomfortable to laugh at most, although Blackwood and Dr Fox were excellent.

What I thought was brilliant was the way that he has captured the production values of media programmes of 2000/1. I thought the graphics were fantastically satirical.

Doon M was good, although she seemed rather... tired, if you know what I mean.

Eminem parody seemed a return to form somewhat, although there were no really brand new ideas.

Excellent, but weak.

the channel 4 forum sound exactly as you would expect, good for a laugh anyway.

I laughed thrice, mainly at the woman disguised as a plastic troll.

It wasn't shit! A giant, wicker knob is well worth the trouble to make, think of all those blisters.............

That E4 Forum is incredible. Is it just me or do many of the writers think that the celebrities involved were in on the joke. There's lots of "I can't believe some of the celebrities who have got involved with this sick programme they should all be burnt" type stuff. Looking at that makes you wonder if there will be real fall-out from this programme, it'll be fascinating to watch if there is. Will Richard Blackwood ever work in TV again?

God, this is going to sound pretentious, but it's my job I guess, but isn't it ever so slightly feasible, possible, that you're not watching it in context as is always suggested by SOTCAA groupies?

This was clearly made OTT for the OTT atmosphere. I agree it wasn't 100%, but I never thought the original ones were either. Hey ho. Just an opinion.

>FRV, Sarah Smith and Simon Pegg. Says it all, really.

What have you got against Sarah Smith? Pegg is fair game.

I sort of agree with Halo, but I think there it would have been better if they had picked some of the best jokes and carried them out at a more subtler pace, without all the zipping around through everything at 1000mph with fancy graphics everywhere, it really takes off the jokes. I think Brass Eye was ruined by Charlie Brooker.. ok, but I'd like to think it was anyway.

It was just far too flashy to take any of the jokes in really, the old Brass Eye shows were subtler and went at a much slower pace, and worked.

From Reach4 -

Re: brass eye special

posted by An extremely angry viewer on 23:30 26/7/2001

I would like to know what was supposed to be achieved by tonight's programme. I'll bet it was written by people who have absolutely no experience of child abuse. I am sick to the pit of my stomach at this programme. Do any of you have children? If you do you should be ashamed of what you have just aired.

I have to congratulate you on possibly the most vulgar programme I have ever seen on television. All you have served to do is trivialise possibly the most devastating experience a child can have. On top of that, you have probably validated the role of the peodophile in our society. The mind boggles at the amount of sex offenders that watched this programme tonight. There are things in our society that are funny, and child sexual abuse is not one of them.

There are other ways of getting across the message of this subject, a well informed documentary would have been more appropriate. It is not until you have experienced something like this yourself that you are then qualified to comment on it, never mind making a joke out of it on national television.

Brilliant! On Reach4 people are threatening to kill Gary Lineker and the other slebs involved. Morris must be laughing his 'Trust Me' trousers off.

>What have you got against Sarah Smith?

Most of her work since moving to TV.

just one of the (perhaps ironic, but probably not) postings to the channel 4 forum.

"in the history of my tv watching i have never scene such absolute garbage
the programme is to obscene for normal words it simply stinks. you can thank that talentless shit arse chris morris for losing you another viewer. how youn had the gall to show this shit i will nerver know. jusst use if possible 1 atom of empathy to the many adults and children who have been abused at some time by the scum you feel a twisted right to publisise.
morris you r a complete and utter wanker and probably a child molester yourself i only wish you had the guts to face the public at large especially me . you are simply a scumbag and benieth contempt."

if people on here are critising morris then he's in real trouble, if we don't stand up for him who will? ASK YOURSELVES THIS, YOU NAYSAYERS (BENT HALO THIS MEANS YOU). WHAT WOULD RATHER HAVE THIS OR 'THE OFFICE'?

'Labia', 'Aaron R', 'CD Ron' - who hell they?

Looks like Channel 4 were correct all along. It *wasn't* finished.

Quite depressing all in all.

And to think poor old Neil from Cookd & Bombd sucked Brooker's cock and made an absolute and total unbelievable arsehole of himself over something so substandard. Hey ho.

>Morris expanded the format of Brass Eye

So Morris takes what Chris Morris does...and extends it... No, I can't even bring myself to smile.

>and only die hard fans can complain.

Or people who actually isolated what precisely was so great about The Day Today, Brass Eye, etc originally? We're back to 'I'm Alan Partridge'. With a vengance.

Tell you what though - I'm really looking forward to the next series of Big Train. Bet that'll take it to the fackin' edge.

>>getting laughs through shocking material is fine, but if you use taboo subjects as the basis of your comedy, surely it ceases to become shocking?
>
>Surely what's more shocking is the gullibility of a Member of Parliament believing 'Trust-Me' trousers are available for online paedophiles?
>
>You're missing the point, Jonesy

Fair point - I agree. But there are plenty of ways of showing up the incompetence of our MPs - I don't think Brass Eye will bring such an expose to a large audience. Maybe if you had a couple of MPs in the Big Brother house. Boris Johnson and John Prescott?

A few weeks ago, when I saw the repeats - and that was the first time I'd seen them since original broadcast - I was less than impressed. Of all the repeats, the first two seemed the weakest - 'Crime' certainly worked better - but the main thing was that the piss-take was no longer a piss-take. About 18 months ago I noticed that ITN's early morning news had titles as long as (if not longer than) 'Brass Eye's. News presenters - who, five years ago, were becoming that patronising and facile - are that patronising and facile.

This added little. But it worked as a piss-take of current news coverage, in a way that the repeats don't - current news coverage has surpassed the repeats, this special had something of a comedy edge. Flicking over to 'Tonight with Ol' Trev', it was hard to tell the difference except that the expected didn't happen (that grey-haired regular reporter they have was saying, effectively, "I could be shot just for holding this replica gun, which is really a cigarette lighter"... only he didn't get shot - and I fully expected him to... though I'm not entitrely sober at the moment).

It made me laugh, which is good. It had more targets than the original series - branching out to lamp things other than 'Newsnight' (given that 'Newsnight' is now at the top of the pile of TV journalism, rather than a crass and incompetent extension of the 9 o'clock news). 'Crime Watch', the assorted specials and, most importantly, 'Tonight with Trev' - which I said should really be the target now, as it's the ugly head of current, grotesque trends.

It made me want more. It made me want an entire series. It made gin go up nose.

i wish people would stop preempting (sp?) me. will there be any fuss in tomorrows papers? i'm sure media guardian will run a piece about 'breaking boundaries', they probably wrote it yesterday. will the daily mail have a go, even though they made brasseye 'sex' their pick of the day (apparently).

Initially thought 'this is shite! It's unlike the proper ones!' but by the end I was hooked. The graphics, pacing etc. are in keeping with the changes in current affairs crapshows made since the original BE series, I felt. Perhaps the (notional) BrassEye production dept. has had to become even more crass and facile with the times, like its real counterparts? Obviously have to watch it again, many times, to see for sure. Interesting to note the name "Hugh Mann-Bembly" in one of the captions. Now, what can that be referring to?

>>What have you got against Sarah Smith?
>
>Most of her work since moving to TV.

It pays the bills! Or were you expecting her to be the new saviour of the valveless magic box?

>>Morris expanded the format of Brass Eye
>
>So Morris takes what Chris Morris does...and extends it... No, I can't even bring myself to smile.

I suppose the Morris die-hards could suggest that it was a deliberate send up of the 11 O'Clock show.

Julia Davis did appear to be doing a Daisy Donovan impression.

The sad thing is it seemed a bit like a sort of goodbye message - the thanking of Armando in the credits, for example.

In terms of quality and pluckiness of spirit, it felt like contractual obligation, or album filler.

Soundbyte: More Private Eye than Brass Eye.

>if people on here are critising morris then he's in real trouble, if we don't stand up for him who will? ASK YOURSELVES THIS, YOU NAYSAYERS (BENT HALO THIS MEANS YOU). WHAT WOULD RATHER HAVE THIS OR 'THE OFFICE'?

I don't want either, judging by tonight's effort. Morris deserves whatever reputational damage he gets for a poorly conceived programme.

>The first three minutes of 'Crime' have already pissed all over it.

Indeed - reading the above enthusarama, I wonder if I've been enjoying the original series in an entirely a different way to some other people.

It speaks volumes when the only really funny bit was the look of intense seriousness on the face of Kate Thorton.

>It pays the bills!

And Ricky Gervais'.

>Or were you expecting her to be the new saviour of the valveless magic box?

No, just a consistently good producer. It's her job after all.

Morris had his litle digs at Nick Ross et al and the media satire remained as strong as ever.
This was never going to be ground breaking stuff though was it? That was 1997.

The credits made interesting reading though - who is James Sezchuan (sp?).

And where were the Scouts?

And what about edit spotting the Simon Pegg in stocks scene? Something going on there?

www.bsc.org.uk
www.itc.co.uk

tell them you liked it, even if you didn't.

What have people got against 'The Office'? The jokes aren't brilliant, but I do find the characters very realistic. Ricky Gervais has got an 'I'm a complete barstard' look in his eye, which the majority of middle managers I've met also have, and are equally completely unaware of,

Joe, Brooker had NO part in the CaB hoax, and it was something I thought of BEFORE TalkBack or anyone else got in touch. Get a fucking fact.

>The sad thing is it seemed a bit like a sort of goodbye message - the thanking of Armando in the credits, for example.

I had heard he was "on hand" during the making.

NB. Arthur Mathews but no Graham Linehan. It's Hippies all over again!

It actually works as a current affairs programme. It made lots of good "points."

>'Labia', 'Aaron R', 'CD Ron' - who hell they?

Long time lurker, I only made my comment because of the Stevenage MP. Anyway, thanks for making me feel wanted! I'll sit in the corner with the "n00wbie sKuM" hat on shall i?

i hope someone does do a piss-take of web forums. no research needed. just cut and paste some of this site and most of Channel 4's - and job's a good 'un.

i can imagine why people who looked forward to this show, in their disappointment, can feel very let down. but calling it "utter shit"? it could not be called utter shit.

but let's get to the serious matter, anybody notice what film stocks were used?

>>The sad thing is it seemed a bit like a sort of goodbye message - the thanking of Armando in the credits, for example.
>
>I had heard he was "on hand" during the making.

Really? So the following people were involved:

Chris Morris
Peter Baynham
Doon McWhatever
Armando Iannucci
Steve Coogan, oh no hang on it's the bloke from Spaced but he'll do

It's like the SOTCAA article says about the cast of The Day Today - "Did this programme really happen?" It seems even more remote now they've had another go, doesn't it?

>>if people on here are critising morris then he's in real trouble, if we don't stand up for him who will? ASK YOURSELVES THIS, YOU NAYSAYERS (BENT HALO THIS MEANS YOU). WHAT WOULD RATHER HAVE THIS OR 'THE OFFICE'?
>
>I don't want either, judging by tonight's effort. Morris deserves whatever reputational damage he gets for a poorly conceived programme.

so what do you want? repeats of absolutely? (ask a silly question).

Reach4 is definitely still funnier than the programme itself.
"AS someone who has suffered a recent miscarriage, I am seriously considering trying for another baby. Who wants to bring a child into such a sick world????"

Why do people keep saying I myself have a child. What do they imagine that qualifies them for?

okay, first half excellent. second half let it down though, especially the outro song.

it was quite like liquid news though on BBC Choice which Joe (not4Sotcaa) and I watched today. This i thought was probably funnier especially the part broadcast live from Fuji and involving the reporter coming out of a portaloo claiming it wasn't smelly now, but will be by tomorrow and throwing a oilet roll into the cubicle and walking off.

ditch yr Morris and get onto the hard stuff.

>so what do you want? repeats of absolutely? (ask a silly question).

Oh for fuck's sake. Read this site.

"what was possibly even more disturbing than the content of this program was that the fact that celebrities such as Richard Blackwood and Gary Lineka (who both have young children themselves) chose to be a part of this program"

Oh God. This experience has made me realise that I am a FAN. It's true, only a fan could be this disappointed. I finally understand why people got so angry about The Phantom Menace!

That ignorant comment somewhere above about the cats buried under egypt not being funny. Oh sod off! It was kill-your-granny funny. But then, as I now realise, this is just how people who never liked Star Wars will defend The Phantom Menace by slagging off the Ewoks.

Oh you lot will eat yourselves alive one day.

>Oh you lot will eat yourselves alive one day.

Comedy ate itself tonight. The graphics were a send up of current affairs graphics that ripped off The Day Today's graphics.

>The celeb hoaxes were feeble because it was a rehash of an old formula. Ofcourse Bernard Manning isn't a million miles away from anyone on tonight's edition, but that doesn't mean CM should continue with the fictitious organisation route. It's very boring now. I would have thought that Morris had the nouce to set a new standard for something or other, rather than relying on an old approach which has been milked by others until its nipples are red raw. He's capable of this.

>Good example of the rehash was the use of overworked visual effects, a la the original series and ofcourse TDT.

The medium is key to appreciating Morris. Sure, the Special didn't set new standards in Morris' canon, but utilising the same old formula is inherent to the purpose of the programme. We see Panaroma et al recycling the one mode when dealing with topics as diverse as drug abuse, civil war and the Euro debate; the most diverse issues blend into one another, the one indistinguishable blurb of the 'investigative documentary' medium. Thus, the significance of the messages in the programmes become undermined.

This seems to be Morris' most overtly political works; forget the hilarity of making a celebrity looking like a fool. The Special showed how even the most controversial topics can be diluted by the way in which they are presented. The same applies with TDT / OTT; filling the body of news with meaningless guff, thereby commenting on the meaninglessness of modern media.

Morris appreciates this, and consciously rehashes the same formula again and again, in order to emphasise his attack. If you're going to attack him for a lack of originality, I suggest you might choose the Jaaam Remixes as a validation for your argument, not the Brass Eye special; the repetitiveness felt when viewing former could see Morris accused for flippancy, whereas that in the latter is as part of the content.

Oh, and who I am? What does it matter? Who is Bent Halo?

>And who got caught out by the ad break eh?

Only in that I tried to edit out the adverts. Got the spoof trailer, paused the video and went to the toilet. Came back and it had already started again. Was it only John Smiths who dared advertise in that slot then?

This could herald a new golden age in comedy. The previous really good thing has gone right off, so other people can fill the void.

I'm trying to see the good side and keep things positive.

> Joe, Brooker had NO part in the CaB hoax, and it was something I thought of BEFORE TalkBack or anyone else got in touch. Get a fucking fact.

Neil - Brooker told us he told you to put something up. He also phoned us to ask if we'd do something similar but I refused.

Stop rewriting your own recent history, mate. The damage is done now. You fucked up badly. All power to you for having a go. No power to you for the ridiculous way you've described it all since. 'Get a fucking fact?' Stop twisting the little bastards around and maybe one will emerge intact.

Until then, penises and bums to you.

So, did you enjoy the show?

>Long time lurker, I only made my comment because of the Stevenage MP. Anyway, thanks for making me feel wanted! I'll sit in the corner with the "n00wbie sKuM" hat on shall i?

Aye, go on then.

>>so what do you want? repeats of absolutely? (ask a silly question).
>
>Oh for fuck's sake. Read this site.
>

i have read the site, perhaps if it were updated once in a while i would read it more often. quoting the front page

'Yes, absolutely - television should be for everyone. Which means that, at some point, there should be some television for us too.'

if this wasn't it then what is?

>Comedy ate itself tonight. The graphics were a send up of current affairs graphics that ripped off The Day Today's graphics.

So Brass Eye Special wasn't the most original or funniest comedy programme of all time. Neither was Jam but it's still a great programme.

I don't think that it was that bad.
The reasons for dissapointment appear to me to be:
-the over-hyping build up on this forum - it seemed people didn't ever have anything else to talk about

- the edits. It certainly didn't flow as well as the orignal episodes. I guess this was down to material being cut.

Ok, so it wasn't the best thing that morris has ever been involved with, but it was certainly far better than most comedy seen on Tv at the moment. I think being hyper-critical as oppposed to just critical is only goign to have the effect of depressing yourselves, not improving comedy standards. The content which was shown was surely pushing back some boundarys? "no good if it's not funny" I hear your reply - but I think it was. There. That's my take on things.

WOW, It was certainly one of the most uncomfortable pieces of television I've seen...well ever. I thought Mark Heaps character was really really funny, and I kept laughing when the picture of the Dali guys face kept changing. I also thought it was more The Day Today than what was normally Brass Eye, but then it was because it was presented more as a news show than a documentary (I felt).

By the way did anyone notice, (A) The guy on the Uncle Beezey tour bus was he wearing a Brass Eye? and (B) Ryc Spangle who did Playground Bang-a-round, was the pop star football club owner from Billy The Fish in the VIZ.

I did think the JLB 8 was funny, I assume it was a parody of Eminem and his ilk. That shot of the kid with the womans head superimposed was totally bizarre, and the kids chorus at the end of the show was off it's head.

Anyway, I liked it, I just hope I don't get strung up by the people who know I liked Brass Eye.

It was a disappointment. I did "enjoy", but as TJ pointed out, the first few minutes of Crime are far better than the whole of the new episode.

Having said that... I'm glad it was made. It did seem a little lazy, but I think there were enough good ideas in it for it to have been worthwhile.

I wanted my jaw to be dropped and my brain to be twisted as it was when I first saw Brass Eye... as it still is when I re-watch Brass Eye. It didn't happen, but it wasn't "utter shit" either. It just could've been much better.

If Chris Morris was Ned's Atomic Dustbin, he's just released "Brainbloodvolume". Sorry, wanted to have an analogy of my own.

from Reach 4 - "I felt frightened for my little daughter asleep upstairs" - it's comedy's own War Of The Worlds!

Shame I wasn't in it though...

Also, it was worth it just to see the reactions of the Reach4 forum. It's a veritable point-missing fest over there, with posts disappearing by the second!

>Ok, so it wasn't the best thing that morris has ever been involved with, but it was certainly far better than most comedy seen on Tv at the moment.

Not true - it wasn't a patch on the second series of "People Like Us," for example. A complete reversal on what I said earlier today, but I hadn't seen tonight's turd then.

The weird thing is, Victor Lewis Smith was right! It's like the end of that Simpsons epsiode where Homer said the comet would burn up harmlessly in the Earth's atmosphere. "I know... I'm scared too, kids!"

I'm in the "disappointed" camp. I didn't laugh or even smile until the ad break gag, because it wasn't until then that the show returned to what made the original series (and OTH and TDT) so gobsmacking: *attention to detail*. From then on continued to sit in stoney-faced indifference until the Eminem bit (although Alistair McGowan has already done the Eminem spoof to end all Eminem spoofs -- yes: Alistair McGowan, that's how easy it is to do an Eminem spoof well). Of the set-ups, the only one which worked for me was the art critic bit, which was probably the only genuinely funny part of the show.

The studio-based stuff was weak, weak, weak, blandly written, even the "Morrisisms" were half-arsed. Nothing on a par with "not so much the Neinties as the JaDanketies", nothing on a par with "you're wrong, and you're a grotesquely ugly freak". I've watched it twice over now and I can't find anything. It's just so lazy. Even the production values seem far far lower than those of the originals. Morris seemed old and bored. He didn't even get Ted Maul and Austin Tasseltine's voices right.

Julia Davis is a great performer, but I can only assume that the heavy-handedness of her delivery in tonight's broadgramme was down to bad direction. Everyone's timing was completely off.

I wonder whether Morris is genuinely happy with it? I remember seeing an interview with George Lucas in which is was taken to task about abominations like Howard: A New Breed Of Hero and Willow, and his response was simply to state that all his films have turned out exactly the way he wanted them, and that he was perfectly happy with them.

>'Yes, absolutely - television should be for everyone. Which means that, at some point, there should be some television for us too.'
>
>if this wasn't it then what is?

(a) I didn't write that. The point of saying 'read this site' was because you frequently come across like someone who has appeared on this forum without bothering to look at the rest of SOTCAA. Obviously not.

(b) I want to see shows with passion, which actually seem glad to be there and try something a little unusual, rather than familiar. 'People Like Us', 'Adam and Joe' and 'Attention Scum' (all 2001) came across like that. As I said, at the core of BES Morris was reheating and I was hugely let down by it.

I agree with much of what you say, Labia, but I'm tired so I'll try and reply properly tomorrow. At the moment I can't believe it happened. Just finished watching it again. Opinion unwavering.

Night.

Day Today = The Bends

Brass Eye (original) = OK Computer

Blue Jam = Kid A

Jam = All of Amnesiac apart from Knives Out

Brass Eye Special = Knives Out

Someone did this already with all but the last analogy. It fits quite well though.

ok my last post tonight. the guy from the obscene publications office in the art gallery. even if the rest of the show had been complete crap (which it wasn't) then chris morris would still deserve a statue for services to comedy. people like us was not funnier, get your head out of your arse. i don't want to over praise it (too late), but i can't understand the pall of negitivity that has fallen. you'll miss him when he's gone.

>Day Today = The Bends
>
>Brass Eye (original) = OK Computer
>
>Blue Jam = Kid A
>
>Jam = All of Amnesiac apart from Knives Out
>
>Brass Eye Special = Knives Out
>
>Someone did this already with all but the last analogy. It fits quite well though.

With that incisive critical mind Rob, you should be working for the Independent.

I think BES will match up with the next Radiohead album, if it's an attempt to re-do The Bends but with really ugly, workmanlike non-songs and no joy.

Before going, one thought. People have got incredibly feverish in the build up to BES which is all well and good, but when the cancellation happened in 1996 there were a number more shows to get hot under the collar about. What's more, they all turned out to be worth the wait. BE was even after an equivelant amount of rumour and conjecture. Why are some people accepting BES as "below par, but worth it" when there should be a string of absolutely fucking ace shows on the way? Three were mentioned in the last thread, all disputable I'm sure, but all of them warmed me a thousand times more than BES did.

Joe and I agree

Pablo Honey though could be........

The Breezeblock!

Bent shat:

>
>Totally unfunny. I mean, *text message* jokes?!
>

Fuck me. I half-expected some sort of half-witted backlash but that really sums up how pathetic you've got. Just because it referred to something that was invented after 1995, the whole thing is somehow tainted? Presumably because Ali G *might* once have referred to a text message, anyone who mentions them is automatically a cunt. Does the fact that the jokes were funny (and not actually about txt msgs but absurdist slang anyway) not matter?

This bizarre Stalinist line is getting ridiculous now - you can all stop pretending, the show's been transmitted.

I honestly can't see how if you liked the original Brass Eye, you can think that the show I just watched was "totally unfunny" and "shit". It *might* have suffered from having too many gags crammed in, but they were very funny gags. Sure, the Phil Collins segment was surprisingly short, but complaining about this is criticising the show for not conforming to the expectations built up based on the publicity it's got. What about whatsername holding up those internet gloves? Or Dr. Fox saying "this is a crab - it has sex with children"? Quality bits.

You know those chickens that were trained to distinguish paintings by different artists? They obviously can't appreciate the content, but they learn to recognise certain visual cues that distinguish Picasso from Klimt. You are those chickens, Bent and Joe - you've lost the ability to actually analyse the content of comedy. You're just going by a few cues to recognise what you like. If it's shot on field removed video or is liked by the wrong people, you reject it. And then justify your wrong opinions by invoking stuff like "a twinkle in the eye" or "the perfomers weren't committed" or something.

Oh, what's that you say, too much of it was similar in style and tone to the series that it's nominally a part of? Fuck off.

What's that Steven? Too many fancy computer graphics? It's parodying how TV news is presented. Unlike the first series, eh? Or are you talking about that little dog thing? You really are a cunt, you know.

>Day Today = The Bends
>
>Brass Eye (original) = OK Computer
>
>Blue Jam = Kid A
>
>Jam = All of Amnesiac apart from Knives Out
>
>Brass Eye Special = Knives Out
>
>Someone did this already with all but the last analogy. It fits quite well though.


And, Radiohead (well, Colin Greenwood) have drawn the following parallels:

Pablo Honey = Battlestar Galactica
The Bends = Star Wars
OK Computer = The Empire Strikes Back

This was when OK Computer had just come out, so perhaps likening Kid A to Return Of The Jedi would fuck up that analogy somewhat. Sorry.

>ok my last post tonight. the guy from the obscene publications office in the art gallery. even if the rest of the show had been complete crap (which it wasn't) then chris morris would still deserve a statue for services to comedy.

Not comedy, services to "pointing things out." It was more like an expose on a serious current affairs programme, and it served that purpose very well. I thought that bit was "good" but not in an amusing way. I'm one of those poor morons who wants to laugh at stuff, you see.

>people like us was not funnier, get your head out of your arse.

I'll leave that one...

> Stop rewriting your own recent history,
> mate. The damage is done now.

I've no reason to lie. I'd already thought of releasing some kind of misinformation as we were in a position to do so. I had already approached someone about doing a hoax the night before Brooker even got in touch. Brooker suggested releasing some misinformation through the message board, which I in fact shut down altogether. Do you see?

Brooker had NO role in the hoax,,,and he never will have, no matter how much you stamp your feet and scweam loudly before invaribaly calling someone a cunt.

Well done Joe, you're King of the castle once more. Keep taking it to the edge, man.

It felt like a """comedy""" show in a way that The Day Today and Brass Eye didn't. Or even a """"comedy news"""" show. The "feel" really reminded me of Ghostwatch for some reason as well.
Generally it was exactly what I was expecting. I didn't go out of my way to be pessimistic or anything and there is always the feeling with Morris that he could still surprise, but generally Morris has stayed true to his trajectory. I enjoyed many bits in this show, this was helped because I wasn't expecting anything too great, but TDTD is, for me, the bestist.

That you O'Gor?

What about Thom farting in the bathroom for The Phantom Menace?


>>Day Today = The Bends
>>
>>Brass Eye (original) = OK Computer
>>
>>Blue Jam = Kid A
>>
>>Jam = All of Amnesiac apart from Knives Out
>>
>>Brass Eye Special = Knives Out
>>
>>Someone did this already with all but the last analogy. It fits quite well though.
>
>
>And, Radiohead (well, Colin Greenwood) have drawn the following parallels:
>
>Pablo Honey = Battlestar Galactica
>The Bends = Star Wars
>OK Computer = The Empire Strikes Back
>
>This was when OK Computer had just come out, so perhaps likening Kid A to Return Of The Jedi would fuck up that analogy somewhat. Sorry.

>With that incisive critical mind Rob, you should be working for the Independent.
>
>

Quite. A 'vision incision' if you will. I am a member of Lo-Fiedlity Allstars and claim my £5.

I still feel like explaining the BES=Knives Out analogy in unnecessary detail though. Will anyone indulge me?

> Fuck me. I half-expected some sort of half-witted backlash but that really sums up how pathetic you've got. Just because it referred to something that was invented after 1995, the whole thing is somehow tainted? Presumably because Ali G *might* once have referred to a text message, anyone who mentions them is automatically a cunt. Does the fact that the jokes were funny (and not actually about txt msgs but absurdist slang anyway) not matter?

The problem was that it was a repeat of the prison slang from "Crime," done badly.

>You are those chickens, Bent and Joe - you've lost the ability to actually analyse the content of comedy. You're just going by a few cues to recognise what you like.

I've sometimes got that impression when reading their opinion on other shows (specifically Spaced and I'm Alan Partridge) but this show wasn't field removed, was it? It had all the right people in it. It certainly didn't pander to a wider audience. But it just wasn't very good. It's not the end of the world. No need to get all uncool and heavy, you'll give poor Stephen a paranoid complex. Okay, another one.

>I still feel like explaining the BES=Knives Out analogy in unnecessary detail though. Will anyone indulge me?

Yeah, go on, a bit of light relief.

Neil! Just ignore the carping. We still love you. Where else would all the little cakeheads have to go to shout ruderies at each other and look at full-colour photos of Lorraine Kelly's twat?

So when's the next corpses shindig?

Will blood be on the walls of the Yorkshire Grey?
Will comedy implode?
Will anyone not on the internet know?

i've been velvet.

See you tomorrow.

>
>Yeah, go on, a bit of light relief.

Ooh! I say. Blue Jam was like Kid A because it was a bold step into the unknown (for a TV show/Mainstream-ish rock band) that was often successful, but much less consistent than his previous work and with significantly less self-awareness. Jam was like Amnesiac because it was largely a retread but with a few more concessions to commerciality. BES was like Knives Out because it was an attempt to recapture old ground, to claim that they could still do the old stuff just as well. It inadvertently succeeded in demonstrating that this _was not_ the case, while still urinating from a great height over virtually all of the competition.

Cheers, toast rack. I feel so much better now.

>Not comedy, services to "pointing things out." It was more like an expose on a serious current affairs programme, and it served that purpose very well.

I agree Toast. With with the original shows, the focus was placed on rather vague areas of controversy; sex, crime, morals and so on; this allowed an expose of how the media dealt with such issues, as well as - and more importantly - offering a broad scope for the comedy.

The issue of paedophilia on the other hand, is somewhat more claustrophobic; there are three areas that can be exploited - 1) Absurd exagerations of paedophiles ("You're the Crazy World of Arthur Brown") 2) Absurd exagerations of how to deal with paedophiles ("Not punishment ... gunishment", the expanding cashew nut, the wicker phallus etc) and 3) The media portrayal.

Given this, everything *did* seem a little condensed and rushed; perhaps it's not so much the pacing of the show that was wrong, Bent Halo, but the choice of the subject - it offers an extremely narrow range of comedic possibilities.

The Morrisisms more than made up for this in my opinion; "brain-dead and quadro-spazzed on a life-glug". Splendid. Utterly splendid.

I'm constantly and consistently changing my opinion on the Special. I don't think it was a waste of time; maybe the selection of paedophilia, for the reasons stated above, compounds to the accusations of unoriginality seen in this thread. Unjustifiably, in my opinion.

>
>>
>>Yeah, go on, a bit of light relief.
>
>Ooh! I say. Blue Jam was like Kid A because it was a bold step into the unknown (for a TV show/Mainstream-ish rock band)

Obviously I meant Radio show, just in case you feel like jumping on that error.

>Given this, everything *did* seem a little condensed and rushed; perhaps it's not so much the pacing of the show that was wrong, Bent Halo, but the choice of the subject - it offers an extremely narrow range of comedic possibilities.

i'll let you know when i pick up my copy of the rushes as to how good it could have been................

>"brain-dead and quadro-spazzed on a life-glug"

Now here we are floating in subjectivity space. That just doesn't do it for me, and how the hell do I explain why? "Live Nut Syphon" - yes. "This is a bus load of flies being sent on holiday. They'll enjoy Somalia. But should they?" - double yes!

Top theory, Rob, I gotcha now!

sorry i meant first edit. not rushes. the fool i am.

I'm almost certain that it was the 1st time Hall & Oates have made me smile.

So do people on this site talk about comedy, or just argue silly points and go round in little cliques? What's wrong with Simon Pegg? I think he's an amusing comic actor. But then again, I think Anton Rogers is quite cool. In May to December rather than Fresh/French Fields.

>i'll let you know when i pick up my copy of the rushes as to how good it could have been................

Will you be wanking over them or watching them?

Don't you think he sounded a bit unsure or embarrassed by the Ted Maul material? He sounded a bit distant.

"It was a naff effort." Oh happier times.

wanking of course whilst watching dumbass. what would be the point in doing it with my eyes shut.

i might as well listen to blue jam.

>I'm almost certain that it was the 1st time Hall & Oates have made me smile.

I think the way they clean up council estates should also be a cause of celebration

>
>The problem was that it was a repeat of the prison slang from "Crime," done badly.
>

A lot of the original episodes had made-up slang in them (not just the one you happen to remember cos you just saw it now) and that particular trope was repeated in this show - the self-confessed paedophile being confronted with a string of made-up terms of abuse was another example. Was that "done badly"?


>I've sometimes got that impression when reading their opinion on other shows (specifically Spaced and I'm Alan Partridge) but this show wasn't field removed, was it?
>It had all the right people in it.

Posted By Bent Halo on Thu Jul 26 23:12:31 BST 2001:
FRV, Sarah Smith and Simon Pegg. Says it all, really.



It certainly didn't pander to a wider audience. But it just wasn't very good. It's not the end of the world. No need to get all uncool and heavy, you'll give poor Stephen a paranoid complex. Okay, another one.

>wanking of course whilst watching dumbass. what would be the point in doing it with my eyes shut.

I'm sorry. I wrongly assumed you were incapable of doing both at once.

>>wanking of course whilst watching dumbass. what would be the point in doing it with my eyes shut.
>
>I'm sorry. I wrongly assumed you were incapable of doing both at once.
>


look out your window then.


laptops and mobiles. thank the lord!

Love 'Four Sail', Elektra Records 1969.

>>The problem was that it was a repeat of the prison slang from "Crime," done badly.
>>
> A lot of the original episodes had made-up slang in them (not just the one you happen to remember cos you just saw it now)

Now I'm not sure whether to defend myself against accusations of being too much of a fan or too little...

I've got the lot on video from 1997 and could probably recite it. But then the same goes for Brooker, including the recital he gave tonight, ha ha!

>and that particular trope was repeated in this show - the self-confessed paedophile being confronted with a string of made-up terms of abuse was another example. Was that "done badly"?

I would have thought that goes without saying! As humour, it was diabolical. It made the pervert look bad. He fiddles with kids and thinks anyone who want's him to stop is "racist." This made an excellent point - like the art gallery obscenity bit.

I suppose that at least gave it an edge over the 11 O'Clock Show. But not in terms of actually being funny.

I promise you, I did not judge it based on some lunatic set of religious criteria creamed from this site, I'm the always the first to mock such tendencies (ask TJ.) The problem is simply that I sat there stoney faced, and in fact went and got a drink at one point during the second half because it was embarrassing to watch. It was poor quality.

>>I've sometimes got that impression when reading their opinion on other shows (specifically Spaced and I'm Alan Partridge) but this show wasn't field removed, was it?
>>It had all the right people in it.
>
>Posted By Bent Halo on Thu Jul 26 23:12:31 BST 2001:
>FRV, Sarah Smith and Simon Pegg. Says it all, really.

Sorry, should have delineated between answering for Bent Halo and giving my own opinion. I care so little for the FRV issue, I can't tell the difference. It looked like traditional glaring video to me. Anyway, why would you field remove a current affairs piss take? It would stop it looking like a current affairs show. Christ, welcome to the shallow end! Sorry.

I think the main problem that some on this thread have with BES is that (A) it was in part written by Charlie Brooker, and (B) it had Simon Pegg in it.

I was left slightly underwhelmed but still generally exhilarated by BES, and my reaction to both Pegg and Brooker's involvement was, "my! this is quite good! how will the SOTCAA forum cope?"

Now I know. You just deny it of any merit in order to score points.

I find it hard to believe some of the comments on this forum, but that's subjectivity for you.
I found the show 'enjoyable'- read into that what you will.
It's too late, and the program was on too recently, to really be able to criticise it fairly now.

crikey this one's observant isn't he?


>I think the main problem that some on this thread have with BES is that (A) it was in part written by Charlie Brooker, and (B) it had Simon Pegg in it.
>
>Now I know. You just deny it of any merit in order to score points.

This programme was not subtle, and not that funny, but it seemed to me to be impressive nonetheless. I don't have a problem with Morris becoming less funny, because he is on the attack in a creative way. There are precious few outlets for that on television these days and if you arrive at that point after an initial career in comedy then so what?

"Blue Jam" featured a series of sketches about the general unease with child sexuality in a way that made tonight's "Brass Eye" look poor in comparison. But after all the tabloid crap about paedophilia, and assuming you are given an unprecedented chance to take them on at their own game, then why not take the opportunity?

This show seemed like a real scream of rage - Morris throwing all the sick jokes in, taking every chance to outrage and not caring if it was all funny or not. This does not diminish the programme as far as I'm concerned. Not funny does not equal shit. He seemed to make a good fist of one of the few "mainstream" chances to air the contrary view, and I don't see anything wrong with that.

i don't really understand all this FRV stuff, is it the same as digital widescreen (which BES was).

PJW, I agree entirely. I did tune in looking for some comedy, and was disappointed, but there were serious bits that served their purpose very well. If anything, the awful attempts at comedy (especially the studio link bits with Doon and Julia) detracted from those good things.

And for the record, the best of luck to Charlie Brooker. Anyone who's read the best of "TV Go Home" over the last few years knows he can do much better than most of that programme. I'll buy his book when it comes out. I'd also like to know which things in the BES came from him, just out of interest.

>And for the record, the best of luck to Charlie Brooker.

Didn't really mean you , TLPTR, but I'll stop right there before my head gravitates toward your anus.

Rather, I meant those who obviously would dismiss the programme based on its contributors, in order to retain the 'I am right' SOTCAA moral high ground.

>
>I would have thought that goes without saying! As humour, it was diabolical. It made the pervert look bad. He fiddles with kids and thinks anyone who want's him to stop is "racist." This made an excellent point - like the art gallery obscenity bit.
>

I'm not sure I get the point you're making there. As humour it was "diabolical"? but it "made the pervert look bad"?
You're saying that it was satirically on target but not actually that funny, right?
Didn't you find the paedophile saying "It's just another form of racism" hilariously funny?

>
>Sorry, should have delineated between answering for Bent Halo and giving my own >opinion. I care so little for the FRV issue,

Not saying *you* do, but the point I'm making is that it is being criticised because it *didn't* have the right people in it and it was (apparently) on FRV. I didn't notice.

If you genuinely didn't think it was funny, fine, but what I don't like is the idea that mentioning text messages and having Simon Pegg in is inherently bad.

as the thread draws to a halt, one final thought. it wasn't nearly as good as 'cartman joins NAMBLA' (which recieved approximately 0 complaints on the channel 4 forum).

Not gone to bed yet.

I didn't actually say it was all on FRV. Some of the sketch bits were.

>Not gone to bed yet.
>
>I didn't actually say it was all on FRV. Some of the sketch bits were.

And that says it all, does it?

> I'm not sure I get the point you're making there. As humour it was "diabolical"? but it "made the pervert look bad"?
> You're saying that it was satirically on target but not actually that funny, right?

Well, yes. It was correct, but not funny, like 2+2, or "Nelson Mandela has cancer of the nob." Actually that is quite funny.

You must have watched, say, a current affairs programme, and nodded and said "Yes, that's good, I agree with it," without also bursting out laughing. Something can be correct in the point it makes without being comedy. All I'm saying is that you could argue that the programme worked in that sense, but it was then let down by much of the forced, routine comedy stuff.

> Didn't you find the paedophile saying "It's just another form of racism" hilariously funny?

Ahh, now we're getting somewhere. It's a bit like the issue of "found objects" in modern art. The artist finds a dead stoat lodged in a tree stump, and decides it looks beautiful, to her. And maybe it does. So she sticks it in a gallery and claim it's her art, and she wants ten grand for it. Does she deserve credit for simply spotting it?

i.e. I can find my own paedophiles amusing, thanks! He would have been funny saying that on Newsnight, or Kilroy. Nothing artful was added by Morris.

> If you genuinely didn't think it was funny, fine, but what I don't like is the idea that mentioning text messages and having Simon Pegg in is inherently bad.

Me too. I can't stand that kind of guff, this site is usually full of it. Did you like the League of Gentlemen (first series, anyway)? I did. Just trying to point out that being a "corpse lover" isn't the only reason for feeling disappointed tonight.

Me neither, may i introduce myself..

Ken, 27 today (no, really!), long time Morris lover and SOTCAA lurker, still feel, though i didn't think the program was as good as it could have been, i think the attempt that it made is to be lauded..

ok ok so there's loads of the same old gags in there, but, well it was called BrassEye wasn't it?

Normally he changes the name of the program when he fancies doing something different, no?

I am outraged! (c. Daily Mail) at the posts on the main board. Some of them have said stuff like

'yeah! and i bet you like this this and this too!'

straight off the top of their heads, used as dry wit, without a hint of what they've just done!

I'll pipe back down now..

>Not gone to bed yet.
>
>I didn't actually say it was all on FRV. Some of the sketch bits were.

>> Didn't you find the paedophile saying "It's just another form of racism" hilariously funny?
>
>Ahh, now we're getting somewhere. It's a bit like the issue of "found objects" in modern art. The artist finds a dead stoat lodged in a tree stump, and decides it looks beautiful, to her. And maybe it does. So she sticks it in a gallery and claim it's her art, and she wants ten grand for it. Does she deserve credit for simply spotting it?
>
>i.e. I can find my own paedophiles amusing, thanks! He would have been funny saying that on Newsnight, or Kilroy. Nothing artful was added by Morris.

actually, if that was a real peadophile in that sketch then it makes it funnier for me, i thought it was just a guy in a joke beard.

> Don't you think he sounded a bit unsure or embarrassed by the Ted Maul material?

The Ted voice always did come and go a bit.


> He sounded a bit distant.

And a little wistful... perhaps even a hint of melancholy. And it looked like he had a bit of cottage cheese trapped between two of his back teeth. It certainly ruined the programme for me.


> Julia Davis is a great performer, but I can only assume that the heavy-handedness of her delivery in tonight's broadgramme was down to bad direction. Everyone's timing was completely off.

And I can't believe this shit. Julia's allegedly "shit timing" was as accurate a performance as the weasel-wrestler's swallowed belch that everyone wanked themselves senseless over when they watched 'Animals' for the first time.

The only material which was truly let down by its delivery was the "invasion" of the show, and everyone (all right, except the kid) was culpable there. It wasn't helped by the shoddy re-edit, but it wasn't
very good to begin with.


Anyway, I had a great night this evening. Thoroughly enjoyed the show (I gathered that I was going to be supposed to hate it, and I really really tried, but it was no good, even the titles made me grin - does this make me a pleb?), chatted eagerly with my friends about the show afterwards, had a highly entertaining time on the Reach4 forum, and then came on here to find an atmosphere you'd expect to find if it had just been announced that Michael Palin had just been found raped and killed in his basement. Ah well. You can all wipe your videos in disgust, but I'll be hanging on to mine.


"Brass Eye DID used to be better. It DID."

>Well, yes. It was correct, but not funny, like 2+2,

I believe that the media hysteria about paedophilia and child murder is ridiculous. As do you. I have a circle of friends who concur. However much Morris's audience is composed of you, me and many of this forum who think likewise, it is not like 2+2 to everyone.

The audience of "Brass Eye" is small and largely full of Morris diehards, but it *was* after "Big Brother" and there will be those who have never seen anything like it. Radical opinions phrased in a powerful way. Not comedy, not obvious to most, better expressed a few decades ago in the single drama, but at least here in the absence of other outlets.

michael palin raped and killed in his basement? that gives me an idea for a sitcom.

The fun on the Reach4 forum was perhaps the icing on the cake. My fingers are really fucking sore now from all that typing.


I enjoyed tonights show, while perhaps not up to the quality of the original 6 episodes it's reaffirmed my faith in TV. It doesn't matter how shit the BE special is, it still kicks the arse off what we're currently 'treated' to in the schedules.

The most disturbing thing was the inanity of the 'talking heads'. Phillipa Forester is supposed to be the presenter of BBCs flagship technology programme and yet she was so money hungry that she believed the 'Pantu' thing? And Kate Thornton, apparently on the verge of tears was cracking. if Morris had repeated that on a 30 minute loop I would have been happy.

But really, with the dust almost settled, hasn't the whole thing been a complete hoot?

Total polarisation of opinions; SOTCAA wanting some kind of comedic utopia they'd better get the fuck on with writing or we'll all get tired of waiting; C4 meltdown.

Hey, we might all have differing opinions, but in this age of SurvivorBigBrother/re-heated Richard Wilson-helmed cack/style over content, doesn't this make you feel 'ever-so-slightly' more alive? Something's made you want to get on the Internet and talk with people. Something's made you want to tell somebody about BES tomorrow at work. Something's made a (perhaps inconsequentially) small ripple in your life, for the better or for the worse....that's good, isn't it? Isn't it?

ps Mr Twist - Brainbloodvolume's fucken great. Not a patch on God Fodder, i'll grant you, but a sadly discarded classic nonetheless. I hope I haven't got your meaning all wrong, but I've just finished a hard night in a busy kitchen, and I've had a few. Kill Your Television.

Cheers

i thought it was just a guy in a joke beard.

exactly - it was hardly ground-breaking - life of brian had women in beards - if they'd wanted to actually do something about paedophilia, then surely some hidden camera exopse, backed by the sun and the daily mail, shown at 9pm on itv would have been better - rather than crap humour "with a serious point for intellectuals (or anyone with a media studies degree from North EscapefromOxbridge Polytechinic). At least it would have got a better audience. How about introducing paedophiles into Big Brother? We'd get to appreciate the 'real Paedo'. But then I suppose no one would vote them out. Lock em up and throw away the key. Still, I wouldn't trust that Brian with a toddler - did you see the way he ogled Elizabeth's child-like breasts?

Congratulations Hackenbush for completely not understand what I was saying and calling me a cunt. You may be incredibly suprised to know that I and I'm sure many others have always regarded you as an outright cunt and thought that your website was a fucking travesty to comedy in the most dry-I'm-doing-Satire-By-Numbers way, but had never bothered sinking to that out of thought for having a civilised conversation bordering on argument, until you cast the first Oxford educated stone, I don't give a shit if you're so up your own Oxbridge led clique that I'm a cunt for not agreeing with you. Let it be known that you sank to petty name calling first, I bet they never let you use language like that in University eh? They really do feel like they're the most important person in the world once they've graduated don't they?

All my thoughts were, was that Morris has perverted the original presentation method which MADE Brass Eye funny, he made it so fast and over the top it ceased to be funny. As you won't know, a joke no matter how good can be completely ruined if presented in slightly the wrong way. Morris ruined most of the jokes by showing them right in your face without the slightest attempt at a more subtle approach, it was like an MTV version of Brass Eye. The computer graphics were merely part of this effect as well as the various techno music blasting with over the top camera effects all over the place, I don't care if it is parodying news, it ruins the material. Many of the jokes were obviously very good, but just ruined by this method, and I know blaming the presentation on Brooker is bollocks, because the show was made by Morris, but to me, Morris was moving Brass Eye closer in format to TV Go Home, making any attempt at well crafted and subtle material completely disappear by having it so provocative and graphic, in effect he was putting the word CUNT in every sentence. Simon Pegg's part was actually ok, it was short, but was a good joke, even if Pegg did the same schtick he does in everything he's ever done.

And yes, I do believe if I was a third party reading back what I've written I might think it's all badly written bollocks, but I'm not trying to form a concise argument up for critical view by a panel, I'm trying to gather my thoughts however crap they may be, you have a right to do so, and so do I, I didn't read your comments which I disagreed violantly with and called you a cunt, until you sunk past that and did it to me first. Yours unhilariously Steppphhen.

Stephen: heartfelt and earnest.
Dr Hackenbush: smug and sneering.

We have a winner

>i thought it was just a guy in a joke beard.
>
>exactly - it was hardly ground-breaking - life of brian had women in beards - if they'd wanted to actually do something about paedophilia, then surely some hidden camera exopse, backed by the sun and the daily mail, shown at 9pm on itv would have been better - rather than crap humour "with a serious point for intellectuals (or anyone with a media studies degree from North EscapefromOxbridge Polytechinic). At least it would have got a better audience. How about introducing paedophiles into Big Brother? We'd get to appreciate the 'real Paedo'. But then I suppose no one would vote them out. Lock em up and throw away the key. Still, I wouldn't trust that Brian with a toddler - did you see the way he ogled Elizabeth's child-like breasts?

feel free to make sense at any time.

Why aren't there any black paedophiles?

>Why aren't there any black paedophiles?

the same reason there aren't any white drug dealers.

Did anyone notice the mention of Endemol in the credits? That was a dig, right, or were Endemol involved?

Oh lord, I'm so confused..

Incidentally, I think it was worth it for Phillipa F's bit (She presented Tomorrow's World, for fuck sake, as someone already pointed out) and the guy in the spoof channel 4 ad talking about 'paedo island - we put 100 children and one offender on an island - and see what happens'.

To be honest, it's commentary rather than comedy. Isn't satire, by definition, supposed to have a desire to improve things, rather than satisfy a comedic desire? Brass Eye Special not entirely unrelated to the daddy of them all, Gulliver's Travels, perhaps? Not exactly laugh out loud funny, made in the popular media format of the time (travel literature), author demonized as a result, forced to get more and more extreme as time goes on.. But pretty damn successful.

Or is that an old point (please, don't punish me, I'm only young and have to be up at 5am)

The only criticism I have of the special is that it should have been made/ shown last August.

Steven, just how slowly DO you want jokes performed for you? And maybe some explanatory footnotes?


> anyone with a media studies degree from North EscapefromOxbridge Polytechinic

> you cast the first Oxford educated stone, I don't give a shit if you're so up your own Oxbridge led clique that I'm a cunt for not agreeing with you

And where the fuck did this University shit spring from? Who restarted the class war? And why wasn't I informed?


> I bet they never let you use language like that in University eh?

They were too busy explaining to us how to crush the Polyplebniks underfoot in later life, how to take over the world, and how to ruin your evening with programmes that were too fast for you.

>>Why aren't there any black paedophiles?
>
>the same reason there aren't any white drug dealers.


Ahhh right, a pre-arranged agreement thing then?

>I've no reason to lie. I'd already thought of releasing some kind of misinformation as we were in a position to do so.

Weren't we all?

>I had already approached someone about doing a hoax the night before Brooker even got in touch. Brooker suggested releasing some misinformation through the message board, which I in fact shut down altogether. Do you see?

Yes, yes, I knew all that, mate. TJ kept me up to speed on events. Misinfo to counteract genuine info you'd accidentally leaked, no? Yes? Knickers? Still, as you said to Mike - 'I won't mention the Talkback connection - might look a bit wanky'.

>Brooker had NO role in the hoax,,,and he never will have, no matter how much you stamp your feet and scweam loudly before invaribaly calling someone a cunt.

Aw, bless you, matey. I *know* Brooker had no role in the hoax, silly. He thought it was a rubbish attempt too.

But wasn't there a story circulating about how Morris had seen your sweet little front page thing and 'was happy with it'? Does this perhaps account for Walker and Mailer's amusing volte-face recently? Once so keen to call you a twat and invent spurious crap about C&B's relationship with SOTCAA, now suggesting we should hail you as 'saviour' of the Brass Eye special?

"Even if you don't appreciate Neil's efforts I can assure you that people far more important than you do". Suckity suck...

And how you can DARE bawl me out for cunt-calling after your recent tantrums is, well, quite remarkable really.

>Well done Joe, you're King of the castle once more. Keep taking it to the edge, man.

Well at least I didn't fuck up a simple hoax by misjudgeing how people would react, mate. We kept well out of it all. You should have done the same. Cor - bet you wished you had too.

After it backfired, all it would have taken was a bit of honesty. A bit of 'yeah, alright, I messed up' in the face of the three hundred and seventy five thousand new threads which immediately sprang up, instead of this insistance that your hoax worked brilliantly - people might have been less willing to view you as patronising and insulting.

Don't worry though - there's plenty of people queueing up for all the FREE STUFF on Cookd & Bombd who'll defend yo ass to the nines. All those lovely 'I'm only in it for the downloads' people who think we owe them this stuff because they were too lazy to tape it themselves. Thankless task, this netting isn't it.

>You are those chickens, Bent and Joe - you've lost the ability to actually analyse the content of comedy. You're just going by a few cues to recognise what you like. If it's shot on field removed video or is liked by the wrong people, you reject it. And then justify your wrong opinions by invoking stuff like "a twinkle in the eye" or "the perfomers weren't committed" or something.

SOTCAA Regs getting you down, mate? Unless you're crouching outside my window, how the tits do *you* know in what manner I watched the BES. But since you asked, I watched it in my pants, facing north, expecting it to be weeeally great (y'know, 'cos it's, like Chris Morris and that). Instead I saw something that looked unfinished and untidy. I saw bad acting, half-formed sketches and an ending which made me feel quite embarrassed, frankly. Didn't care about the FRV. Didn't care about Simon Pegg or Brooker (we're matey enough with both anyway). I didn't tick off the above worries sketch by sketch. I viewed it as a complete piece. Wincing slightly. Had a roll-up about five minutes from the end. Went for a poo afterwards. Cuppa tea, etc.

I'm reminded of the forum person who kept saying "It's just a telly programme for Christ's sakes". And unfortunately he was right. Not a particularly good one either. And I get no pleasure in saying that whatsoever.

Thing is, Hackenbush, it seems you've reduced everything SOTCAA stands for to what YOU personally get out of the site. Nothing, it seems. Just a couple of sad blokes making a list of 'bad things', then saying 'See?' when they happen in comedy. A summing-up which I'd hope says a lot more about your attitude than ours. I've never really understood why you even bother coming here. You obviously don't like it much. Right from the beginning you've always been keen to diss us for your own ends. You only came to the anniversary gathering so you could ask us naughty Corpses why we went off-line and explain the Savile thing.

>So when's the next corpses shindig?

Do you know something - I was just thinking the same thing. It's quite sad y'know - I was going to post up this big cartoon thing I'd completed recently based on Ailie's photos of the SOTCAA party - assembled as a spoof Edinburgh Fringe ad. A belated thank-you to those who came along. But there's so much bad feeling now it'll probably just be dumped.

Hey Rob - 'Paedophile Island'. Not a patch on 'Minibrother' was it?

And TJ - 'Playground Bang-a-round'. Not a patch on 'Nine Years Old' was it?

Well I picked the wrong thread to say hello in....

>Well I picked the wrong thread to say hello in....

Hiah. Ignore all the above. Just the usual initiation ceremony.

>>Well I picked the wrong thread to say hello in....
>
>Hiah. Ignore all the above. Just the usual initiation ceremony.

Sorry, I just plunged straight in - what is the ceremony?

>>Well I picked the wrong thread to say hello in....
>
>Hiah. Ignore all the above. Just the usual initiation ceremony.

I was reading all with great interest.. it's funny that such a program has got all of you lot/us lot in such a floss!

It does remind me a little of 'you may find the following scenes cause a powerfull sensation in your body'(apologies for potential inaccuracy, i've read the archive!)

Either way, like it or not, it was 'big' in a way that big brother wasn't.

Isn't there some law about stiffies? And if so how did he get round it? (prosphetic?)

K

>Isn't there some law about stiffies? And if so how did he get round it? (prosphetic?)

I think they may recently have relaxed (arf!) the laws. Last week's Newsnight review played a clip from 'Intimacy' which featured a real-life, non-prosthetic erection. And, of course, the film itself is the first British flick featuring such scenes to be passed by the BBFC.

>>Isn't there some law about stiffies? And if so how did he get round it? (prosphetic?)
>
>I think they may recently have relaxed (arf!) the laws. Last week's Newsnight review played a clip from 'Intimacy' which featured a real-life, non-prosthetic erection. And, of course, the film itself is the first British flick featuring such scenes to be passed by the BBFC.


Ahhh I see, lets hope they don't inflam.. no, I can't do it. shit, i did!

Oh good, I was wondering whether to get turned on by the dog with the boys head, and large one underside.

I just want to wake up tomorrow to find all the crazy stuff on the channel 4 forum was faked outrage, sadly I don't think so.

Incidentally,

Reporter from ITN.. career finished?

>Reporter from ITN.. career finished?

Reporter reschmorter - he's an ITN News anchor.

(Please place all weak puns in the bin provided.)

> Yes, yes, I knew all that, mate. TJ kept
> me up to speed on events. Misinfo to
> counteract genuine info you'd accidentally
> leaked, no?

No, once again you're talking shit. The misinformation was to give me an excuse to close the messageboard and mailing list while I was away for the weekend and unable to moderate them.

> Still, as you said to Mike - 'I won't
> mention the Talkback connection - might
> look a bit wanky'.

What? Firstly, I think it's incredibly low of you to post up stuff from personal email. That marks you out as a sad pathetic fuck, in my book. Secondly I don't know what you're inferring from that statement. I said I wasn't going to mention Talkback getting in touch with us about the transcripts posted on Verbwhores because it DOES look wanky. I don't want people thinking they have a direct line to Talkback through me. That's all that quote meant.

I *could* have used that info to counteract some of the lies and rubbish coming from gossip-mongers like yourself, but didn't. If I had then you'd almost cetainly be having a go at me now for name-dropping or being a TalkBack whore or something.

> Aw, bless you, matey. I *know* Brooker
> had no role in the hoax, silly. He
> thought it was a rubbish attempt too.

Then I really don't understand the posts you made prior to this one. I think you're a gluebag. I'm not even a fan of TvGoHome, Joe, so that dig of yours wasn't terribly effective. Stick to your forte: calling people cunts.

> Does this perhaps account for Walker and
> Mailer's amusing volte-face recently?

How would I know? Why not ask your fantastically reliable sources. What accounts for yours? I will say this, though,,,Walker made his own enquiries and was told by someone who works for Morris that he was very grateful for the hoax. That's hardly my fault.

> instead of this insistance that your hoax
> worked brilliantly - people might have
> been less willing to view you as
> patronising and insulting.

Blah bloody blah, it wasn't meant to be a brilliant hoax, it was meant as a quick distraction and worked. SOTCAA forum really marks itself out as a place for ill-informed bullying kneejerks these days. The knives were out for me on here long before my "patronising" behaviour.

How much of a stiffy did you get from trying to stitch up another person who has supported you over the last year then? Very poor Joe.

neil and joe, mildly amusing but hardly the time or the place. take it outside lads.

Cripes-a-lordy, what has everybody gotten into? Gosh, I've met the Corpses and they seem like nice enough people but now it seems they are bending over backwards to outdo many Morris fans in their disdainful sang-froid about BES. I mean, I really like the vigorous debating ethos of the site and the dedicated unpicking of comedy but when did you all become so old, exactly? I'm a bit older than most of the posters here (I've met you guys, so I know) but Christ, when did you all become the Grand Old Men of Comedy Appreciation? There is a feeling of self-inflicted 'expertise' that seems to cling to people here that smacks of 'well, I've got this huge collection of everything comedic on video so I can carry a slightly pompous air of judgement about comedy shows'. No, no, no, don't get me wrong, the whole, 'let's be elitist' thing I like and I respect your opinions, it just seems that people are indeed getting jaded here and I'm surprised by the reaction to this latest Morris. Underpinning it seems to be this resentment that a lot of people like his stuff with a fervour that is perhaps at times embarassingly uncritical and puppyish. Or perhaps also that because of the excited attention that Morris gets, somehow other worthy and great comics are neglected and unloved, isn't that sad.
I mean, shit, I LOVED the BES.
Sorry!
But I had a really great time watching it. Sorry!
Morris is to me a landmark figure of British telly and popular culture. What he does, with unnerving prescience is to my mind absoulutely remarkable and effectively he underwrites the comedy of 5, 10 years down the track. Solid argument to back all this up? Why bother? I've done my tours of duty in all the same comedy outposts that inform the traditions represented by views expressed here. Goons and Hancock to BTF, Python (and the rest of the Oxbridge Mafia),Goodies, NTNON, Blackadder, Comic Strip, (and others of the Comedy Store legions)up to Morris, Coogan et al. Flesh all that out with all the offshoots of offshoots and throw in a healthy dose of Americana from Lenny B to Steve M, Richard P, Bill H...I've been there and done all that and seen a loada witless sitcom-ery and also rans in the meantime. I feel I've got a lotta perspective on this too. I don't need to or care about proving that. I've watched comedy grow too. And yet, I'm amazed that Morris seems more resented than ever on here. The bigger picture seems to get a bit lost here. So this is more a crie de coeur than might be normally tolerated here but I'm just surprised at this dismissive tone in postings. I think the man's a genius. Look at the big picture of comedy evolution. Someone talked earlier about a lack of joy in the work. I remember Terry Jones talking about this once, citing the simple example of rewatching old Python shows and changing his opinions daily about their humorous quality and reflecting that much of the value of comedy is about what you bring to it as a viewer. Frankly, I think there is a lack of joy in some of the people watching CMs stuff. I think the constant raking over of comedy careers and reputations is making people jaded,Bent Halo, the scrupulous dissection of every rumour, every comparative precis of recollected moments and catchphrases. Talk about 'lazy' production or writing, 'poor focus', 'well-trodden' and 'formulaic' - I mean I can really see here all the dons of Comedy College sitting finger tips pressed together in attitudes of discursive pension muttering incisive and withering critique to hushed and awed tutorials of Humour undergrads.
The standards being claimed here are becoming ethereal in their irrelevance I think and I think the desire to treat comedy as Great Art is forgetting that we should perhaps also think of it as Great Fun. But the unenthusiastic take up of Morris work since the last BE seems dispriritingly more like a bunch of mimsy sulks not happy at not getting More of the Same. I liked that it was different, changed, denser, faster, narrower (I don't think 'Crime' was ever by contrast a great epsiode of BE). Yes, there are Morris devices there, but they are what the show is about. I think the consistency of approach is actually useful and interesting to show the ease with which people can be roused with a repetitive ploy - they don't learn from history is a pretty strong point you'll observe - and it isn't as if he's gonna do it forever. It wouldn't work in BJ/ Jam and rightly. They are different and challenging in other ways.
Think of where tv comedy was five years ago. Then ten years ago. Then 15 years ago. Does that help? Stephen Fry was interviewed a few years ago and he characterised a kind of British attitude that I feel here. He was talking about people's reaction to uncomfortable social commentary and violence in literature and art and why it was useful. People tend to dismiss it by saying 'oh yes, but all this unopleasantness - we don't need to be reminded of it' and he said 'but you only need take a look outside your own window to see that we do need to be reminded of it'. Remember, Morris himself is quoted as saying that a lo

Shit.

My last posting got cut off. I feel rather silly now.

Anyway to finish those witless mumblings -

that a lot of this stuff is inspired simply by profound stupidity (meaning himself as well as 'them out there'). How sweet to be an idiot.

Make of that what you will.

Here is a pasting of an e-mal I sent to a friend tonight
I expect you don't care but my little theory is this.
The special was designed as a massive controversy thing, and unlike previous brass-eyes it focused totally on one thing - 'paedogeddon' as opposed to general stuff like the first series where the titles were stuff like 'animals' crime' sex'
So it naturally was less generally amusing, far more specifically controversial, and totally out of context. It was scheduled between big brother and a show from old brass eye. This meant that it caught all the pleb ( see site) bb watchers like yrself who had no knowledge of brass eye, and seemed deeply offensive to them. If they'd shown the old episode first then people would have seen it in the context of media satire, and had the chance to switch off if they wanted. As it was it was probably the most direct bit of shock TV ever, and this had to be intentional. I think the point was not to make a good bit of TV, which it was and wasn't at various points, but to just get a massive bit of controversy. Thus something which is a satire on media hysteria creates some, to the extent that it will probably effect some change, either good or bad, in the way the media does current affairs and controversial subjects. Thus it is a fucking awesome piece of postmodernism, which is normally something i fuckin loathe, and all the people on the corpse messageboard are missing the point when they say 'it was poorly put together,' just as the channel4 board whingers who sat through it just to know what to complain about are totally missing the point too. Maybe it was meant to be a bit scrappy just to cause further outrage by being blatantly nasty and gratuitous without obviously being 'art.'
Ali concludes. I believe it to have been generally planned to be a media stunt rather than a piece of good comedy TV, and indeed think that it could possibly be just as general as earlier brass eyes in its scope, only it should be called 'sensationalism.' Seeing as any reaction you can have to it seems to amount to hypocrisy it is therefore good comedy plus artness, it works as a piece of performance art rather than 30 mins of TV.
I don't know if that's right, or to what extent Chris Morris planned that, but I expect hes' probably quite pleased with the way it's been received at this early stage.

Ah....<shrugs>

Just watched it back this morning. A lot of post-production fannying around cannot shroud a script full of holes (ironically, it seemed to have been *written* by 8-year olds) and embarrassed pauses. Should never have been made, let alone transmitted - the Kilroy spoof in "Sex" said more in 90 seconds, and had a great punchline. Far too much of it was a pale retread from Morris's back catalogue - JLB8 (Fur Q), Text Messaging (basically Prison Slang from Crime), Smash My Brother's Face In an echo of the Prague monged music from Drugs, and of course, the meaningless celeb hoaxes. Genuinely depressing, no proper jokes or sketches, just bombastic wordplay and a glut of hysterical emptiness. And just look at that list of writers - what were they all doing there exactly?

If only Michael Grade had banned this one.

One more thing: over a year ago, I bet that Morris hated everything the 11ocs stood for. Now, I'm not convinced. I would say he should go back to Sundays on London Live, except he seems way too self-aware to be so wonderfully innocent again. The playfulness has gone.

So, Channel 4....

I liked it.

I thought it was completely misconceived and objectionable and shouldn't have been made. However I'll get back to you with a much longer posting later on.

"Utter utter shit" - well, shit, yes. Though with a few dispiriting moments of worthwhile inspiration. NB. the beauty pageant sketch - actually had a point to it. But completely at odds with the unfocussed mess in the rest of it.

More later, when I've settled my points in my own mind.

>civilised conversation bordering on argument, until you cast the first Oxford educated stone, I don't give a shit if you're so up >your own Oxbridge led clique

Let's just pass over this bit about my stones being educated at Oxford, and mention in passing that I accept that like a lot of people, I fell into the trap of doing a shit UK version of the Onion (it was still better than the Schmews, though, right?)

>All my thoughts were, was that Morris has perverted the original presentation method which MADE Brass Eye funny, he made it so fast and over the top it ceased to be funny. As you won't know, a joke no matter how good can be completely ruined if presented in slightly the wrong way. Morris ruined most of
>

Ok, where exactly were all these "over the top" graphics and MTV style cuts that you complain of that were so different from the last series? To me, the presentation was similar to last series.
The titles, ad break graphics and credits? Were the blue titles more over the top than the last series' spinny orange vortex stuff?
The map of the British Isles with faces on it and CM turning into a kid? In line with similar stupid graphs/illustrations in the previous shows I'd say.
There was 10 seconds of Matrixy camera work in the bit about the van-driving paedo, which was making fun of OTT reconstructions. But the editing of the celeb stings, fake TV shows, the bits in the studio and the rest seemed to be pretty much the same as last time.
I still don't see what you're talking about, to be honest.

>
>And yes, I do believe if I was a third party reading back what I've written I might think >it's all badly written bollocks,

I didn't even mention this, Stefan, but maybe if you took the time to explain more clearly which bits you're on about it would help.

Incidentally, there's been several postings on this thread assuming that the cynical ones amongst us have slammed the BES on the grounds that Pegg and Brooker were involved. For me, the fact that Baynham, Quantick, Bussman and Mathews (all great writers) were all involved in the writing made it even more disappointing. It gives me absolutely no pleasure to say all this, but it's the truth.

Hmmm....

I couldn't take my eyes off BES - was I waiting for something I didn't get, or was I actually getting a brain workout by watching something thought-provoking and entertaining? Either way, I don't feel I wasted thirty minutes.

Personally, I'm waiting for the director's cut on the Brass Eye DVD. An extra ten minutes to restore some of the jokes, and give the sketches space to breathe.



By the way:
"Comedy ate itself tonight" and "In effect he was putting the word CUNT in every sentence"? You guys crack me up. Go out and do something less boring instead, eh?

>By the way:
>"Comedy ate itself tonight" and "In effect he was putting the word CUNT in every sentence"? You guys crack me up. Go out and do something less boring instead, eh?

An option that becomes more tempting with each passing day.

The Corpses and their ilk have a marked tendency to reduce shows down to how they score against predefined criteria (Bent's comments about how the producer's name or the FRV "says everything") instead of how the show makes them feel.

But as it happens, in this case, Joe de SOTCAA isn't doing that.

For that matter, Justin isn't either, and reading his reaction, it's exactly the same as mine, but much better worded.

This time, the "anti" camp is talking about their reaction to the feel of the show, and quality of the writing and performance, and feeling embarrassed by it.

Meanwhile, the "pro" camp is saying "But it's Chris Morris, man! Look for the kite mark! It must be good! What else is there for us to worship, anyway? Nothing! So get down and start praying! Beggars can't be choosers, you know!"

Who's relying on pre-defined criteria, eh?

>SOTCAA Regs getting you down, mate?

I don't know why you're so worried by the fact that there's a mailing list with some regulars to this forum on it in existence. It's not sinister, we're not slagging you off all the time or anything, honest.

> Instead I saw something that looked unfinished and untidy. I saw bad acting, half-formed sketches and an ending which made >me feel quite embarrassed, frankly.

OK, I didn't see that. Some of the acting was *different* in style to the first one, but some of it was an improvement - ie Julia Davis' magnificently sinister child-woman was great in my opinion. Especially with the balloons at the end.
Thinking back maybe there was some dodgy delivery in a couple of places, didn't stop the show being funny though. "Half-formed sketches"? Huh?


>
>Thing is, Hackenbush, it seems you've reduced everything SOTCAA stands for to what YOU personally get out of the site. Nothing, >it seems.

I think SOTCAA is great. I particularly like your championing of stuff that most people won't have seen, the fact that you can see new acts in context rather than raving when someone reinvents the wheel, the edit stuff is always great ... It's good that you're not afraid to slag off stuff that's genuinely weak even if it's by people you know.
But lately, there has been a tendency to do criticism by checklist ("FRV, Simon Pegg, Charlie Brooker ... must be bad"). And reading your post, it did seem that you were doing it too:

>and only die hard fans can complain.
Or people who actually isolated what precisely was so great about The Day Today, Brass Eye, etc originally? We're back to 'I'm >Alan Partridge'. With a vengance.


> Right from the beginning you've always >been keen to diss us for your own ends.

Sorry, no. I may not always have agreed with you, but I'm not toeing any kind of party line here, really.

<You only came to the anniversary gathering so you could ask us naughty Corpses why we went off-line and explain the Savile thing.
>

I had to ask! But that wasn't the only reason I came by a long shot. I was genuinely excited to meet you lot.

>By the way:
>"Comedy ate itself tonight"

I was taking the piss, sweetheart! It's so hard to do mock portentious voices on this damn thing.

>Just watched it back this morning. A lot of post-production fannying around cannot shroud a script full of holes (ironically, it seemed >to have been *written* by 8-year olds)

Right, yes.

>and embarrassed pauses. Should never have been made, let alone transmitted - the Kilroy spoof in "Sex" said more in 90 seconds, and had a great punchline. Far too much of it was a pale retread from Morris's back >catalogue - JLB8 (Fur Q),

So once you've done one rap parody, that's it? Never mind that the pastiche rap lyrics were a lot better done this time, ("My daddy raped me anally, prenatally, and I'm only passing on what he did to me") that he's taking the piss out of a different generation of rappers (Eminem not Ice T), and that it was much funnier in performance than Fur Q? And that it was making a different point?

>Text Messaging (basically Prison Slang from >Crime),

Nope. No more than it was basically Made Up Drugs from Drugs, or any one of a string of 'absurd slang' sketches.

> Smash My Brother's Face In an echo of the Prague monged music from Drugs, and of >course, the meaningless celeb hoaxes.

Why were they more meaningless than before?

>Genuinely depressing, no proper jokes or sketches, just bombastic wordplay and a glut >of hysterical emptiness.

No proper jokes or sketches? Yeah, they were all made of paper, weren't they? "Paedophile disguised as a school" wasn't a proper joke then? The piss-take of the American beauty-pageant wasn't a proper sketch? What are you thinking?

Bent Halo recently mentioned the Reggie Perrin revival (1996) as a perfect example of why it's a very bad idea to try and bring something back after a long lay-off. (And nearly five years since the original Brass Eyes is a long lay-off, given that Morris has since done three radio series, one TV series and a series of newspaper columns.)

Something I was particularly distressed about regarding the Perrin revival was how so many of the actors, brilliant in the original series, had completely lost their sense of timing, as if they had just watched their own performances for the first time and decided to overact wildly. Very very sad to watch. (Later found out that at least two of the actors had indeed not been acting in the ensuing two-decade gap, and had returned to the show, "as a favour", it would seem.)

The BES was a bit like that. Doon was indeed awful, but the real shock was Morris, who has lurched into self-parody in a worrying way. It really is as if he's watched Iain Lee and thought, "Oh, *that's* how you do it". I am still reeling from this programme, and I almost feel like wiping the tape.

Let me put it like this, Dr H. I did not laugh once. Not even a titter. I barely smiled, apart from when Kate Thornton's caption described her as "journalist and broadcaster". I thought the programme was pitiful, and shocking only in the sense that it was so badly made.

Yes, ok, so the rap parody had a different target (although we beg to differ over the lyrical excellence or not of the new one) but essentially, it was merely an off-cut of something he perfected nearly eight years ago. What is all this supposed to be, Morris's Greatest Hits? I was hoping that this special would ensure that Morris would leave behind all his imitators, blindly doing celeb hoaxes till they die, and using the word "spazz" as a prefix. But no. He's just like the rest of them on this evidence. Time for retirement, I think.

We beg to differ, Dr H. You saw a lot of sketches. I saw a lot of unfinished irrelevance. And no jokes.

Brooker and Zeppotron are under contract to Endemol - hence the Endemol credit. I imagine it's like "Bryan Adams appears by kind permission of Capitol records" or whatever.

Brooker's additional material that I could see extended to the Paedo alarm gag Morris chose to borrow from Unnovations (actually, Brooker's been hawking that gag around for a while now, maybe he sold it without admitting he'd used it before. He's does that sometimes... Admirably lazy in my opinion.)



Anyway, shouty shouty people.

I avoided the whole controversy by getting so stoned I couldn't focus on the screen and thus couldn't be disappointed. I can't remember much about it at all...

Apart from laughing non stop at the gorgeous graphic work and shouting "Wrong presenter!" with a hoot of delight when Julia Davis appeared.

So some nice moments, but did notice that, where Paedophilia in the Judy Leheuwton (?) sketch was alluded to and flirted with, so a point could be made without making light of the subject, in the BES it became a numb word through repetition. Just a tag phrase to hang jokes on. You could have replaced the work "Paedophile" with "Milkman" and had the same jokes, since often no real point was being made about the subject matter, just an exploitation of the incongruous comic frisson of putting a taboo word in a ludicrous place. Morris does this quite a lot (in Blue Jam particularly) and it's not his strongest trick by far.

Anyway, after a while, it seemed that the word "Paedophile" was just been dropped into sketches that weren't actually about the paedophile witch hunts at all. A glam rock song about paedophilia? Er, when did that happen in real life, then? What's that supposed to say? It's about as dangerous as the Pulp pastiche from the last series - which itself was about as horrifying as Marilyn Manson. "Look, mommy, I've put the name of a serial killer in my song, are you shocked?"

So that disappointed a bit. But the gibberish parts were still funny, and the use of celebs seemed more focussed and trim (that gag's worn thin, so don't overuse it, seemed to be the motive behind it). I laughed but wished the satire had been more savage. Only the wicker penis scene seemed to really address the uneasy feelings of right thinking people towards paed-hunting.




Oh, and Joe or Mike or whichever redname it was who said "Who hell they?" to the new posters earlier on, you've just proved why this site gets royally on my tits at times. Labia was arguing well, the other guys were driven by enthusiasm to post for the first time... and all you can do is turn round from your big armchair by the fire and ask Berenger your valet to eject that riff raff by the doorway. Are only longtime posters entitled to their opinions?

Right, then as a long time poster, I'd like to point out that that was fucking rude.

I was really hoping this show's message would be 'I'll show you fucking dark' and piss over every lacklustre, over-rated fad of the past five years (LoG, Spaced, wahtever). But no. It was a bloody mess.

Sober light of day thoughts:

I think the crux of the problem was the studio-based setting. In doing a kind of live telethon format thing, Morris was immediately establishing parameters within which to gauge the effectiveness of what he was doing. The "classic" Brass Eyes had a format which existed inside a kind of vacuum. Whenever Morris was on camera in his presenter persona, he'd be on some kind of custom set or in front of banks of monitors, and the structure of the programme was made up by a kind of montage of association. THIS is what made Brass Eye good, and what defined it as a development from OTH and TDT. Although its predecessors still stand alone as classic comedy in their own right, the format had matured. In this respect, the BES was a retrograde step. Its closest siblings in the Morris family are probably "Crash at Big Street Station" and the "WAR" episode of TDT, fun sketches in their own right, and good enough for Morris to perhaps consider the ground covered. Anyhow, by establishing this framework from the outset, we were forced to evaluate the BES not in the context of other Brass Eyes, but in the context of *every Ghostwatch-style telethon spoof ever made*. And it performed adequately, but it is not a step forward in Morris's development as a satirist, comedian and artist.

It seems to me that the peak of Morris's career thus far is the end of the first series of Blue Jam. He moved from the cleverly staged mayhem and embryonic celebrity-hoaxing of R1, to OTH and its natural progression TDT, reaching the logical conclusion of his "current affairs spoof" cycle in Brass Eye, and then returning to radio in a show which broke new ground for the medium: Blue Jam. The second and third series of Blue Jam became bitter and unpleasant, and the Channel 4 Jam seemed a mysteriously redundant exercise. Why not write new material? Why ruin jokes which were expressly designed to be funny *only on the radio* by televising them. What poinyt could he have been trying to make? And now, Morris continues his journey into the past by not only attempting to revisit the spirit of a pre-Blue Jam project, but presenting it using a format previously explored in 1994.

We've been wondering where Morris could go after Blue Jam, and it looks like we need wonder no longer.

Belle And Sebastian's "Fold Your Hands Child, You Walk Like A Peasant" - before the release of this album I was very excited and couldn't wait to hear it, despite the fact that there was no evidence that they were making any progress with their sound or style. Bought it, listened to it, was disappointed that they had churned out the fourth album in as many years of exactly the same stuff, only done less well so and in a by numbers impress-the-Mercury-Music-Award-judges manner, and failed to see the point. I listened to that album once, and have not done so since, despite still regularly listening to all their others.

I now have an acute sense of deja vu.

Joe4Sotcaa - why did you wait until now to start acting like a fat girl over this CAB thing? It is pretty low that you'd quote personal correspondence on a messageboard. Any justification for this? Or can you do whatever the hell you like on your own site?
I'm not sucking neils cock because of the FREE STUFF, i just think you're behaving like an angry little cunt. It's quite offensive really. And boring.

It was a bit of a mess, but at least we'll soon find out why, as news of the pre-, post- and in-production squabbles and walkouts filters down (or maybe up) to the Corpses, who seem to thrive on privileged little infocrumbs like this, and who, as a result, seem to be getting more arrogant and elitist by the day.

While I'm here, a small grievance: where's all the audio/video content that used to be on this bloody site? The Day Today trailers? The KKMKY MP3?

And what about the content that SHOULD be here? Like the off-air footage of a gloom-stricken Noel Edmonds going half-arsedly through the motions of a House Party Rehearsal? How the hell can you tell us about a tantalising titbit like that and then fail to upload it? Eh? Eh? Do you hear me, Corpses? You're just a bunch of prickteasers.

And for the record, I always thought Morris was crap anyway. Angus Deayton is the only comedy genius still living.

I went to bed depressed and confused last night. I didn't laugh either. (Except when my cat did something funny.) It looked thrown together carelessly - completely unlike the original series. This was brought home by the repeat immediately after - Crime wasn't the best episode of the original series, but it did indeed piss all over the BES. Much is made of the 'spoofing' of modern media presentation styles, and in BE this *could* be amusing (the Peter Stringfellow pre-advert graphics bit) but overall I thought where BE triumphed was that it was content over style. The scripts on their own would still be funny. Basically, what Ted Maul said was funnier than how he said it.

And this simply wasn't true of BES... Lines like "...he really is a shit" were astonishingly lazy, there was no joyful manipulation of language, the listing of slang terms for paedophile seemed pointless when done by Morris rather than duped rentagobs and none of them even came *close* to "Joss Ackland's Spunky Backpack". It was pure style over content. It was like a spoof of Morris done by VLS, pointing out exactly why he's not funny. It was AWFUL.

I suppose I'm still confused. I don't know if I can bear to watch it again, though. Well, at least CM succeeded in 'outing' Simon Pegg as a ginger. (He's not been fooling anyone, y'know...)

> It looked thrown together carelessly - completely unlike the original series.

Has anyone pointed out that this show had a completely different director from the original series, and that this could have had a major impact on the show? And does anyone care? No? Okay then.

i find it amusing that a lot of people both sides of the fence are accusing the other side of only like the program because of a set of defined criteria set before the show even aired and skewing their opinions to fit that (FRV, brooker, pegg etc on one side, morris adoration, etc on the other). why cant you realise that comedy, like any subjective medium can be all things to all people. hey maybe some people liked it because they thought it was good and some people didnt because they thought it wasnt (obviously over-simplifying it as everyone has more detailed reasons for their like/dislike).

your opinions mean nothing to anyone else, and neither do mine

criticism DID used to be better, it DID.

Mogwai, I drew attention to mid-direction in an above post, and was ripped to shreds for it. No-one has brought it up since.

>Mogwai, I drew attention to mid-direction in an above post, and was ripped to shreds for it. No-one has brought it up since.

All apologies. I missed it in all the shouting. Anyway, it still stands as a valid point. You have my belated support.

>Has anyone pointed out that this show had a completely different director from the original series?

And producer. Phil Clarke - the bloke who produced R1's Loose Talk in its post-Mark Thomas, going-a-bit-rubbish days. And the man who produced the Jon Holmes/Sarah Alexander series of 11OCS.

>
>>Has anyone pointed out that this show had a completely different director from the original series?
>
>And producer. Phil Clarke - the bloke who produced R1's Loose Talk in its post-Mark Thomas, going-a-bit-rubbish days. And the man who produced the Jon Holmes/Sarah Alexander series of 11OCS.

Don't kill me! Look over there! It's Phil Clarke you want, not me! He's over there! Get him you want! (HIDES)

>The Corpses and their ilk have a marked tendency to reduce shows down to how they score against predefined criteria (Bent's comments about how the producer's name or the FRV "says everything") instead of how the show makes them feel.

We usually follow remarks like that up. Are people entirely pinning an attitude against me based on two admittedly glib messages which I posted in a moment of fury at what I was seeing? It was a gut reaction, which I followed up with reasoning, written late at night by an unwell and disappointed man. Please stop assigning politics to every single remark I make.

Plenty of people have argued the case for why they thought it was a failure, and I'm not going to burst a blood vessel discussing it any further. I actually retired from this forum two weeks ago, and only returned on Tuesday (in redname terms) because of the C4 chaos above and my negative reaction to BES. If I had liked it you probably wouldn't have heard from me. But those two subjects are despairing, and are worth taking a stance on.

I came to BES with as few pre-conceived notions as possible. I left most of them with the laundry. But Morris's anchoring was startlingly bad, and any validity to the satirical targeting was hampered time and time again to the point of utter distraction. It felt wrong from square one, especially due to the lazy writing which Ewar highlighted. Nothing seemed to gel. What's more I never felt involved as I have consistently done with Morris's work before.

I don't feel that Jam served a great purpose on C4, but visually it was arresting even if the material was largely old stuff (something he rarely resorted to with the OTH/TDT crossover) and I didn't laugh much. Some say the same of BES, in that it was visually interesting (I agree, in part) but not terribly entertaining. The difference for me was that Jam hangs together and is rather beautifully written. BES did not meet this criteria.

I'll be watching it again later (3rd time) and then resting it for a few weeks, so as to come to it fresh and sober. Or maybe not. Dunno. It left me cold and continues to do so.

Bye for now.

>Has anyone pointed out that this show had a completely different director from the original series, and that this could have had a major impact on the show?

Tristram Shapeero - Assistant Director on Jam. Assistant Director? I thought that was just the person who shouted the director's commands through a megaphone. Perhaps not.

In fact, most of the crew seemed to have come from Jam rather than the original Brass Eye, but whether this means anything, I couldn't say.

Where are Lee & Herring? Surely they must have some interesting (this is not sarcasm by the way) insights into the programee, especially as they have a knowledge of working with Mr Morris?

Tristram Shapeero co-directed Smack The Pony, and more tellingly, Sam's Game.

The fact that Sarah Smith was "script consultant" really does suggest the writing contributions were all over the shop.

The overall impression I got from one viewing was "Most people who see it will only see it once, and so it doesn't matter".

Re: poor cuts/edits/style..

Wasn't it spoofing the LIVE Crimewatch for pretty much all of it?

One of the best bits for me was the outside reporter calling back to Chris. He stares at the camera for a second (who listened to the reporter, not the producer), inflates his cheek, then the camera sways across to whoever Doon was playing..

Yep, maybe some of us will explain everything for him..

It didn't make me laugh, therefore: not good comedy.

It made me laugh, therefore: good comedy.

In fairness to most of the script contributors, they have no control over the final product and are not necessarily composing actual sketches. Those that I have met talk of lengthy meetings where lots of random ideas are floating around, some are jotted down, and are often drastically twisted by Morris in the final product to the point of being unrecognisable.

My own, personal thoughts on the BES:

For various reasons, I do not possess a television. I have not seen many of the programmes regularly discussed here, and have no opinions on many of the issues that constantly turn up here for that very reason. For example, I don't know what field-removed video looks like, and it's unlikely I'd spot it. I wouldn't recognise Simon Pegg if he came up and Pegged me one. I don't carry round a huge database in my head of which writers have worked on which sitcoms, and who I should be expecting great things from. In all truth, I haven't seen all of the original Brass Eye series. Normally I just stay out of the way, contributing once in a while to the audio-humour based threads, or threads about music or other off-topic nonsense. I realise that this does not make me a typical SOTCAA forumgoer. Try not to hate me.

I do however believe that the lack of much of the knowledge possessed by many here means that I approach the programmes I do see with a fairly open mind. So, to get to the point, last night I went well out of my regular way to watch the Brass Eye special. And I laughed. I laughed at �exactly what we didn't want to happen�, at �another type of racism�, at JLB-8, at Dr. Fox, at the commercial break, at loads of it. I thought the speedy, �rushed� delivery was a pretty good parody of what recent television I have seen, with its aimed-at-the-viewer-with-zero-attention-span aesthetic. I even thought that the female co-presenters were pretty good send-ups of autocue-dependent media nobodies, but I've had that one refuted in another thread.

I know that here we tend to look beyond the �if it makes you laugh, it's funny� clich�. You can call me a pleb, a sycophant, whatever. But it did make me laugh. If somebody with a wider knowledge of good and bad television could explain why this half-hour, taken on its own terms as a standalone piece of thought-provoking entertainment, was a failure, please can you do so.

If someone can do this without calling me names, saying I have no right to comment due to my own (partly self-imposed) TV exile and the lack of knowledge of the wider picture this brings, talking about things I know nothing about (I'm sorry) or just saying �read the above postings� (I have), then that would be so much the better.

I like you all. Don't hate me.

OK, here we go then. Neil, etc.

>No, once again you're talking shit. The misinformation was to give me an excuse to close the messageboard and mailing list while I was away for the weekend and unable to moderate them.

Sorry - I thought it had been established on an earlier thread that you'd posted genuine gossip about the BES to your newsgroup and that the hoax was your way of correcting the situation.. If I've misunderstood that bit then I apologise.

>Firstly, I think it's incredibly low of you to post up stuff from personal email. That marks you out as a sad pathetic fuck, in my book.

That would hurt, were it not delivered in the same aggresive tone you've reserved for everybody who refused to fall for the hoax.

And also if you hadn't done much the same sort of thing anyway by printing that 'Arse Eye' request mail on your site and announcing "Behold how stupid this person is."

>Secondly I don't know what you're inferring from that statement. I said I wasn't going to mention Talkback getting in touch with us about the transcripts posted on Verbwhores because it DOES look wanky. I don't want people thinking they have a direct line to Talkback through me. That's all that quote meant.

Ah, right. Fair enough. I was misinformed.

>I *could* have used that info to counteract some of the lies and rubbish coming from gossip-mongers like yourself, but didn't.

Gossip-mongers like myself? I've been off-line throughout all this. No lies and rubbish coming from me. Or are you refering to the site attitude in general?

>If I had then you'd almost cetainly be having a go at me now for name-dropping or being a TalkBack whore or something.

No I wouldn't. That's not the point of this at all. The point is you shouldn't have gotten involved at all.

>Then I really don't understand the posts you made prior to this one. I think you're a gluebag.

What's a gluebag? Oh right - a bag of glue. No, I'm not one of them.

>I'm not even a fan of TvGoHome, Joe, so that dig of yours wasn't terribly effective. Stick to your forte: calling people cunts.

Pots, kettles, etc. Your last few updates show that clearly.

It wasn't a dig anyway - it was a bit of info. I found the idea of someone from Talkback telling people to curb net discussion after they'd messed up the situation through their own incompetance (ie showing a deliberately provocative trailer, then, when the show gets delayed, saying "Oh no - people are discussing it on the internet - how did that happen?") extremely insulting, personally. I wanted no part of it.

>Walker made his own enquiries and was told by someone who works for Morris that he was very grateful for the hoax. That's hardly my fault.

And that wasn't meant as an insult towards you. It was towards the transparently odious manner in which the Brasslistees in question sucked up to you upon hearing of the above despite past nastiness. And the 'let's turn a blind eye to Neil's inept hoax because he provides lots of downloads' attitude made me wince buckets.

>Blah bloody blah, it wasn't meant to be a brilliant hoax, it was meant as a quick distraction and worked.

No it didn't. I can't reiterate this enough. It didn't work. It really really didn't. Honestly. It didn't. It backfired. It didn't work. Neil. Look at me. No, please look at me. It. Didn't. Work.

>SOTCAA forum really marks itself out as a place for ill-informed bullying kneejerks these days.

I know, the place has gone to rack and ruin hasn't it. I blame all them niggers Richard Herring keeps talking about.

This forum has always had its fair share of kneejerks - why, I remember you giving us a right old slagging for having had a go at you on some list or other, later revealed to be not us after all in fact - you acted on misinformation fed to you by anti-SOTCAA pranksters. And this during a time when everyone was having a go at us for one reason or another.

But you can hardly blame people for growling at you when you appear to be saying "Ooh, look what I've been sent - something YOU haven't got, aren't we important! By the way, Chris Morris has been taking the piss out of every man jack of us" and not expect some sort of explosion. Following all this by saying "Tee hee - I made it all up - you all fell for it and look how clever I've been..." You were lucky to get off as lightly as you did.

>The knives were out for me on here long before my "patronising" behaviour.

I don't remember any of that. I've only read the Brass Eye threads - saved for me by a friend while I was off-line.

>How much of a stiffy did you get from trying to stitch up another person who has supported you over the last year then? Very poor Joe.

Yeah? Yeah? Ooh! Well - not as poor as your...no, can't be bothered now. No stiffy. No stitching up. Just my own opinion from having read the Brass threads. And you might want to bear in mind how much we've supported your site over the past year too. As such your own recent kneejerks on this forum over the whole business have been equally upsetting fo

(cont.) As such your own recent kneejerks on this forum over the whole business have been equally upsetting for me to read.

And that's why I brought the subject up. I was seriously buggered if I was going let you blether a Neil-ified 'official' version of events (as per the rather self-congratulatory front page on Cookd & Bombd) without at least a little more questioning on the matter on a thread which isn't about to be deleted immediately. At best I think it was a naive attempt at something which should really have been avoided altogether. But you seem intent on sticking to your guns. Okay, you've been stressed out, yes you've had a rough time of it. But at the end of the day you chose to post that message. When your back's against the wall you can't just blame the bad attitude of this entire forum en masse for being rubbish when your plans backfire.

>I'm not sucking neils cock because of the FREE STUFF, i just think you're behaving like an angry little cunt. It's quite offensive really. And boring.

And that's how I felt about Neil's postings recently.

Sad pathetic fucks and gluebags notwithstanding, what *did* you think of the Brass Eye Special, Neil?

U. Butler:

Whenever there's a firey thread with sparks flying everywhere we do tend to get a sudden surge of anonymous or unfamiliar people who've seemingly never posted before - think of Charlie Brooker's mates turning up whenever there's a TVGoHome-bashing. My original posting did ponder that the positive messages about BES from people who don't normally post could be a means to 'get in there first' on a subject which they perhaps knew would get a negative response. I deleted the above observation from the posting as it seemed a tad self-important. I didn't think I was being particularly rude just to leave it at 'Who hell they?' - especially since I did it in my Vic Reeves voice!

Re: the 'Playground Bangaround' glam parody - it wasn't pointless, it was a pisstake of naive pop singles which allowed paedophilia into the living room. There's a long history of such, from 'Sweet Little Sixteen' onwards. But it wasn't very well done. In fact it reminded me of a joke in an old rubbish 'Brain Damage' magazine - a glam-rock singer spouting 'Hey there little girl, are you sixteen yet?'

>Joe4Sotcaa - why did you wait until now to start acting like a fat girl over this CAB thing?

I've been off-line for a few months. I opted to bring it up only after the show had gone out and did all my oh-for-fuck's-sake-ing in private. Didn't bother phoning up the NME editor to call him a 'fucking fuck-head (the fucker)' as Neil advised (because we've still not had it confirmed that Talkback didn't leak the tape to them in the first place), but I thought I'd take this opportunity to call Neil an unbelievable arsehole for his silliness instead. Ho.

>While I'm here, a small grievance: where's all the audio/video content that used to be on this bloody site? The Day Today trailers? The KKMKY MP3?

It wasn't an MP3 - it was an on-line Flash thing. Not downloadable as a file. Neil - is this one of those offensive people who think we owe them Free Stuff?

>And what about the content that SHOULD be here? Like the off-air footage of a gloom-stricken Noel Edmonds going half-arsedly through the motions of a House Party Rehearsal? How the hell can you tell us about a tantalising titbit like that and then fail to upload it?

Firstly, uploading it would cause a load of legal problems which we can do without (believe it or not we don't actually own the copyright on the dress-run tape). Secondly, we mentioned its existance as part of an argument about what constitutes a 'releasable' out-take - far better an argument than saying "We imagine there's footage of Noel Edmonds going half-arsedly through the motions...". Picture the reaction: "Oh yeah? How do YOU know such footage exists. This is mere speculation!", etc.

>Eh? Eh? Do you hear me, Corpses? You're just a bunch of prickteasers.

I hear you. I felt the same way when I first read the Bible actually. 'Heaven on earth'? Fackin' marvellous. So where is it. Mmm? Mmm? And where's this Jesus who said he was gonna return to save us? That God must be a right teasing fuckercunt bollocks twat-stick cockhandle spazzdonkey do you like my parody, etc...

It's a terrible shame - you should all know by now that any rare Morris-related stuff we find we do actually pass on to CAB or its extended family (including a *proper* MP3 of KKMKY I hasten to add). Our space is limited. The only 'downloads' we provided in the past were as illustrations of articles which were making points slightly above the 'Fackin' marvellous' variety. An LP withdrawn due to apathy, a radio show which allowed people to hear what I'm Alan Partridge could have been, a series of trailers nobody bothered putting on the video releases, a script which nobody ever bothered researching when writing expensive cash-in books. Etc.

We took down the media to conserve space. We did plan a temporary download section - i.e. a certain amount o

(blah.) We took down the media to conserve space. We did plan a temporary download section - i.e. a certain amount of space, continually updated which would echo what people were talking about on the forum - but it never happened (although I did send files down the phone to Rob who pasted in links to them every so often. You may remember some of them).

Something we found after deleting the media was that all the 'just in it for the downloads' people either got angry and left, or - to use Peter O as one example - actually started reading this 'bloody' site for the first time.

>Are people entirely pinning an attitude against me based on two admittedly glib messages which I posted in a moment of fury at what I was seeing?

I don't personally see any difference in tone between the phrases 'Class - sheer class' and 'Utter utter shit'. Except that - ho ho - the former was 'positive' and the latter 'negative'.

From the Sun's "editorial"

'Last night's show may have raised a laugh in trendy wine bars frequented by TV executives who have lost all touch with the real world.

But to most Britons the defence of our children's innocence is paramount.

Their safety is sacrosanct.

So what can be done?

Firstly the people responsible must be shown the door immediately.

They must never work in television again.

Secondly, Channel 4 should have it's license revoked.

It has no right to put this muck on our screens it is not above the law'


----

Eh, which law would that be exactly? Surely not the ones that the Sun itself broke by identifying paedophiles and encouraging people to 'go after' them?

And did you notice how each sentence is a separate paragraph - just so the readers brains aren't all confused by that text. No, I'd rather turn to page 3 and see some young filly's breasts. She is 18, isn't she? Only just? Well, that makes it alright, then.

Sorry, that was meant for the 'tabloid' thread below.

Ok Joe4sptcaa, i take it back, thanks for that response. I appreciate your motives even if you did come across as belligerent. It seems that the sotcaa gang just jumped out of nowhere guns blazing. This has nothing to do with me anyhow. It seems obvious from any messageboard you go to today that pretty soon, all the morris fans will be fighting wit hthe people who were'nt particularly satisfied or impressed, rather than with the multitudes who want to see someone punished for the outrage that was(nt) BrassEye Sp.

As an outsider though, it does seem a little unfortunate that you/neil should have this big fall out type of thing. Not that I think inter comedy website solidarity is a good thing. I'm just sentimental.

>Sorry, should have delineated between answering for Bent Halo and giving my own opinion. I care so little for the FRV issue, I can't tell the difference. It looked like traditional glaring video to me. Anyway, why would you field remove a current affairs piss take? It would stop it looking like a current affairs show.
>

I thought the idea was that it was a send up of shows like Tonight with Trevor McDonanld, which I thought was FRV (having only watched the one whith carol voderman talking about the internet full of kiddie fiddlers).

The news "report" that started off with credit for director and editor and the like kind of give me that idea.

>FRV

It was a pisstake of a current affairs prog, and quite a few bad current affairs progs use FRV. I would have thought it was defensible on that index.

For my own part, I thought it was a curate's egg. When it was weak (Julia Davis' bits in partic), it was very weak. When it was good (Gerald Howarth holding up pictures of the 80s pop duo Hall and Oates as disguises used by paedophiles), it was right up there with his best stuff.

Have to agree about some of the performances being hammier than a pork butcher's window, but I thought that Morris himself was still top.

Perhaps he shouldn't have gone back on himself, but it was still better than most of what's on.

Joe, I'm a long-term lurker with friends at TalkBack - this is how I know what I know:

>I found the idea of someone from Talkback telling people to curb net discussion after they'd messed up the situation through their own incompetance (ie showing a deliberately provocative trailer, then, when the show gets delayed, saying "Oh no - people are discussing it on the internet - how did that happen?")

The programme makers' main concern was avoiding the names of the celebs / MPs getting into the public domain ahead of broadcast. Obviously they wanted to avoid the risk of anyone taking out an injunction before the programme aired, which could easily have happened, resulting in a heavily butchered show going out - or no show at all. It was not incompetence that revealed these names - in the forms of postings to C&B etc - it was a leak - a leak which everyone involved in the programme was furious about. Probably - at a guess - from someone lowly at an edit house, or at Channel 4. There are various theories about Morris leaking some stuff himself, but few people believe he'd jeopardise the show by revealing *names*, even if he did send the pictures to the Warp site.

You shouldn't find it insulting that people who had spent a year of their lives on the show wanted to take measure to ensure their work finally saw the light of day. It wasn't TalkBack's fault it was delayed - that was a C4 decision. And - and I hope this isn't too contentious - but as most SOTCAA posters appear to be interested in seeing the programmes Morris creates (at least, until last night), I don't think it's unreasonable that he and his team ask for help in ensuring that one of his programmes makes it to the screen in its intended form.

TalkBack were simply asking that, if at all possible, SOTCAA not reveal the names of hoaxed celebs on the forum. Nothing more. They weren't asking that the show not be discussed on the Internet. And, yes, the trailers revealed the subject matter, but they didn't bane anyone who'd been hoaxed.

bane anyone who'd been hoaxed.

*name*, obviously, not bane

>There are various theories about Morris leaking some stuff himself, but few people believe he'd jeopardise the show by revealing *names*, even if he did send the pictures to the Warp site.

And the video that went to the NME?

I thought the robo paedo was funny, the segement with Jezz North, The Farrrkkk arrrffffff as he's driving away made me laugh like a drain. Also when the flash shot kept re-appearing, but with an extended nose and bigger eyes and eyebrows, I laughed. There was also some other things I thought were funny,...Oh yeah the JLB-8 stuff was funny, and sounded really like Eminem.

Hey ho, as Stewart Lee once said "Comedys a subjective thing" so I guess we're all gonna be split over this, although uncomfortable the most offensive thing for me was having to watch the last 10 mins of Big Brother..............hang on, aren't I repeating what someone else has already written??? Oh well it's true, I hate BB.

>And the video that went to the NME?

Some think that was him [cos they didn't mention any of the MPs, who would be the most likely to succeed with an injunction - and people saw the hand of Morris behind that restraint], but most doubt it. The fact is there *was* a bootleg video in existence, which too many people had seen, and someone was trying to post a transcript of the show on any site that would carry it. Morris certainly didn't sanction that.

> someone was trying to post a transcript of the show on any site that would carry it

They came here, too, and were roundly told to fuck off. If it was real (which it was) then we didn't want to see it before time, and anyway in among all the counter-hoaxing pretty much everyone assumed it was just another hoax anyway...

>> someone was trying to post a transcript of the show on any site that would carry it

Is there any reason to believe it was all the work of one person? The Tracy Ash site also had transcripts that turned out to be true. What a very busy person they must have been, with their website designing, transcript posting, and video sending. And to what end? My, it's still fascinating. For all of ooh, two microseconds.

I don't think the people who produce this site actually like comedy unless there is some sort of prior consensus that it is good, ie, all new comedy will be rubbish.
Everyone knew that you would just come on and slag it off however good it was.
Stop analysing and just relax and watch it---this episode was just as good as the others if not better as it is a very dangerous topic to make funny in the tawdry media-manipulating climate of this country

> That would hurt, were it not delivered in
> the same aggresive tone you've reserved
> for everybody who refused to fall for the
> hoax.

You're just taking the piss, surely? I'm not aggresive towards people because they didn't fall for the "hoax," the fact is Joe, a LOT of people did. They shouldn't have, but they did. I'm being "aggresive" because you dragged my name into this thread and made a staggeringly unnecessary personal attack on me. How was I meant to respond you silly fucker? That's what I find most dissapointing here Joe, the way you've behaved like such a cunt.

> And also if you hadn't done much the same
> sort of thing anyway by printing
> that 'Arse Eye' request mail on your site
> and announcing "Behold how stupid this
> person is."

Oh for fucks sake Joe, that "email" was quite obviously something I made up, to parody the mail we get from people who think we owe them something.

> Following all this by saying "Tee hee - I
> made it all up - you all fell for it and
> look how clever I've been..." You were
> lucky to get off as lightly as you did.

When I exposed the hoax on the site, my tone was purposely antagonistic and snotty, PURELY to wind up the cunts of this forum. It was a two-fingered salute. Glad it worked.

morris romps home with a win. the antis have made more noise but the BES was clearly a hit with the majority.

FOR 23
AGAINST 13
INDIFFERENT 12

sorry to anyone i've forgotten or misinterpreted.

FOR

Labia
scarebear
'Aaron R'
'CD Ron'
'Norman F'
ollie
Al
'Mike J'
Beelzebub
Gregg'
Earnest
Joe
Jonny D
Dr. Hackenbush
Peter
Mogwai
'You Have No New Messages In Your Mailbox'
'Pat Wallace'
'Robert Varley'
bennyprofane'
mrdiscopop
Johnny
'Stuart O'

AGAINST

Bent Halo
'Mike Firth'
'The Lord Privy Toast Rack'
TJ
'paul twist'
VanRonson
Joe4SOTCAA
Martin
Justin
Jon
Parp
Ewar Woowar
'John Atkins III'

INDIFFERENT

Radiator Head Child
Jonesy
'loose wardrobe'
Steven
CC
velvet
'Eat My Thoughts'
'Rob Jones'
PJW
Wonders
Unruly Butler
LF Barfe

>Utter utter shit.
>
>The most dispiriting sight.

Well, you must have some fantastic comedy where you live.

>'Labia', 'Aaron R', 'CD Ron' - who hell they?
Oh jesus, I didn't realise this was a closed shop; you're a bunch of jaded fuckers.

velvet industries inc would like to state Mr Velvet is not indifferent, but merely liked the first half of the show, but found the second half to be not so good.

thank you.

btw i thought the list was a great idea.

Yes, I'm indifferent, because seemingly this argument has become one of immense and serious implications, a true crusade if you will, with divisions and personal battles. Therefore my own opinion about the show seems small and unworthy to be fit in alongside the big boys'.

I think it's nice it gets a repeat today, it's very civil of channel 4, especially when they really needn't.

Why don't we score it in terms of hyperbole? In plentiful supply on this thread, it is.

Obviously the count up should be weighted. Each contributor should be given an "importance factor," and all the importance factors should be added up. Otherwise, well, I mean, just about anyone can have an equal say!

Opinion times Importance equals.....

If fact into doubt won't go, then doubt equals fact divided by some non-integer. Where does this get us?

Infraspace?

>
>I think it's nice it gets a repeat today, it's very civil of channel 4, especially when they really needn't.

I'd rather they showed a new South Park. Or a repeat of the NAMBLA episode...

>>
>>I think it's nice it gets a repeat today, it's very civil of channel 4, especially when they really needn't.
>
>I'd rather they showed a new South Park. Or a repeat of the NAMBLA episode...

"Pooeooedo Night," featuring repeats of Cartman joins NAMBLA, Brass Eye Special and that Victorian sex documentary.

>Where does this get us?

Lower Dorset.

A dullard writes:
The phrase 'I couldn't give a tuppenny toss' originated from Victorian times, when street children would go into the snugs of pubs and offer to wank off men for tuppence. A thriving industry in those days of 'family' values'.

I hope Mark Heap doesn't decide to visit Portsmouth in the near future...

>When I exposed the hoax on the site, my tone was purposely antagonistic and snotty, PURELY to wind up the cunts of this forum. It was a two-fingered salute. Glad it worked.

Why? How big a stiffy did it give you?

Just tried to watch the repeat. Have given up at the ad break. It just isn't good enough, and it has a surfeit of shock value with very very little to back it up. I thought maybe I'd been too hard on it this morning, but if anything, it was even more depressing this time round. Unfortunately, such is the problem with such a topic that the only two options being heard today seem to be "How depraved" or "How brilliant". "How disappointed" is not an option. It would seem.

it's so fucking funny, i mean 'uni-bummer'? come on you jaded idiots... but i won't start again. lets agree to disagree.

'dj bob hoskins, going mental in dustbin'

It's hard to isolate what I dislike about it, though. Is the writing just stuff we've had before - even the end of part one surprise is a steal from the Moral Decline episode which was a genuinely extraordinary moment? Is the acting overwrought and yet at the same time, half-hearted? Are the celeb hoaxes underwhelming, no longer because of the artfulness of the programme makers, but the sheer cretinism of the victims? Is that list of insults at the paedophile not far off the "list we thought up in the office" for lesbians as seen on Knowing Me Knowing You seven years ago? What is wrong with it? Why has it failed so spectacularly in my eyes? I was not expecting the equal of the original series, but I thought it would have a bit more comedic guts than simply repeating itself. Has Morris run out?

i'd really like to know how chris thought it went. but unfortunatly we'll probably never know, apart from comments like, 'well my friend's girlfriend knows someone who works at talkback and they say chris said...'

is it beyond the realm of possibility that someone from sotcaa or cookdandbombd could contact the talkback office and ask for an interview. if chris morris is anything like i imagine then he wouldn't mind giving a few hours of his time to talk to some real fans rather than know-nothing journalists. or am i being naive?

Just watched the repeat. The best bit was Simon Pegg playing the guitar at the end.

He is a fine comic actor.

I didn't think I'd make it very far through this repugnant thread...and I didn't...but far enough...

I could be lengthy and articulate here...instead I shall be brief, pithy and eloquent...and indeed articulate...

Although an irritant of a thread...there is a satisfying 'justice'...that being...those who don't deserve the Brass Eye Special shan't have it...good...

The same for I'm Alan Partridge...

Thank God there is a me remaining...

This site became disappointing quickly...the forum even quicker...

>It's hard to isolate what I dislike about it, though. Is the writing just stuff we've had before - even the end of part one surprise is a steal from the Moral Decline episode which was a genuinely extraordinary moment?

I didn't think the fake newsflash in "Moral Decline" was anything special in the first place. Just the same as the BES in that it wasn't fooling anyone for a second and that only the content would make it worthwhile. Noel Edmonds being shot was a lame invention, and it didn't even have the bonus of a number of celebrities taken in - just "Boycey" from OFAH.

Pythonesque fake breaks seemed particularly pointless in "Brass Eye". The normal structure of current affairs was being taken apart anyway, and the usual content (pressure groups, MPs and celebrities) was surely being monged enough without the need to gild the lily.

>AGAINST
>
>Bent Halo
>'Mike Firth'
>'The Lord Privy Toast Rack'
>TJ
>'paul twist'
>VanRonson
>Joe4SOTCAA
>Martin
>Justin
>Jon
>Parp
>Ewar Woowar
>'John Atkins III'

I'm not completely against. As I said, I did enjoy it (just as I did enjoy Brainbloodvolume, to go back to my earlier analogy), but it didn't shatter my world as much as the original series (or God Fodder) did. I've been thinking about and discussing the show for most of the day, and there are many scenes and touches that I do like, but compared to the original series of Brass Eye it simply just doesn't stand up. People I've spoken to today seem to reflect the opinions of this forum; some think it's up there with Morris' best, others (those who are most familiar with Morris' canon, tellingly) are a little disappointed.

So, I'm not *against* the special completely - I think it was worth it for the misguided reaction that it's received - I just think that it pales in comparison to the original series.

I'm glad it was made and shown, though.

Fencesitter? Moi?

Additionally, one aspect of the special that I *didn't* like was that a brief flash of the "Paedo Files" clip in present in the opening sequence when many clips flash on-screen in quick succession. You wouldn't notice when you first see the show, but it's a little disappointing when you notice it, as it does undermine the whole point of it being a fake ad.