and what the fuck is michael moore's tv abomination doing on there?

j xxx

And where is The Goodies?

So, no Brass Eye, The Day Today, or The Prisoner.


And yet the Royle bloody family makes it on there.

Who did they poll? People on the bus?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?

Nuts in May is better than Abigail's Party.
Thats my opinion anyway. Does anyone care? I doubt it. So why should I care about the opinions of those polled? So stick that, people who were polled.

Do the opinions of people polled on a bus count for less than other peoples' opinions?
Has anyone else ever been 'poled' on a bus? eh? eh?

OK, criticism accepted, it was very narrow minded of me.

It's just that I've often heard people on the bus extolling the virtues of You've Been Framed/Royle Family/Darling Buds Of May/TV's Hilarious Del Boy Falling Through The Bar etc etc in loud and annoying voices, but to the best of my knowledge I've never heard anyone dissecting The Prisoner in intricate detail.

Perhaps I should have explained myself before mouthing off.

Good commet from some bloke on the 1:00 BBC news (or words to this effect): "There are a majority of programs from the '60's '70's and '80's and only a few from the 90's - whether that shows dumbing down i don't know"

Notice any time differences between what he's netioned?

Sorry, wasn't really criticising.
I get the bus often enough to know the kind of prole-scum-pleb-filth you're talking about.

Whoops!

Nice that Doctor Who made third place though.

And I thought the list was compiled by a group of 'experts', and not the 'general public'.

> - whether that shows dumbing down i don't know"

<snigger>

This just goes to show the pointlessness of polls - only MOR populist stuff stands a chance. And that list would never be one person's top 100. Does anyone else think that polls are pointless? Let's have a show of hands...

Here is my hand.

Here's my vote.

Experts. Experts. The word makes me seethe.

Is there any reason why Parkinson is on the list at all, apart from him being avalible to provide useful quotes about what a good poll it is to any idiot reporter who happens to be about?

I'll stick up for the BFI until it hurts. They did a film canon a few years ago which picked 350 titles which would be maintained, restored and screened every year at the NFT. It was a good selection and they lived up to the promise. Let's hope that they do the same here.

>notable omissions: gbh, bagpuss. anyone spot any others?

GBH was a shock - scientifically better than BLACKSTUFF, which itself began strongest as a PLAY FOR TODAY ('Black Stuff' 01/01/80).

>1 Fawlty Towers

Bollocks to that. The Singing Detective should be here and nothing else.

>8 Parkinson

This really is public voting, although they must have looked at audience appreciation figures if I have my sensible head on.

>16 Blackadder Goes Forth

(falls off chair in hysterics)

>17 Absolutely Fabulous

(chokes on vomit)

>18 The Wrong Trousers

(coughs up blood)

>19 The World At War
>20 The Singing Detective
>21 Pennies From Heaven

Ah, that's better. All three should be higher, although PFH does lose it's way after 3 or 4 episodes. I watched it recently and it really is gobsmacking until Potter runs out of ideas. The ending is hopeless.
Why are they next to each other? That doesn't make much sense. And BRIMSTONE & TREACLE, SON OF MAN and BLUE REMEMBERED HILLS should all be here somewhere. So there.

>23 Who Wants to be a Millionaire?

Hmmm.

>27 The War Game (The Wednesday Play)

It wasn't a Wednesday Play but...too bloody right.

>29 That Was The Week That Was

Have they actually tried watching this again?

>31 The Royle Family

Great though it is, this is a current polling problem. It's like those top 100 album lists a few years back that had Oasis and Radiohead at No.1.

>36 Blue Remembered Hills (Play for Today)

Oh there it is.

>38 I'm Alan Partridge

FUCK ME! That's plain wrong.

>39 Cracker

Went shit when McGovern left, which was at the start of series 2. This should not be here.

>46 Auf Wiedersehen, Pet (series 1)

Great to make that distinction! I lost interest too.

>47 Tiswas
>48 Elgar (Monitor)

Interesting choices.

>54 Hillsborough
>55 Dennis Potter: The Last Interview (Without Walls Special)

OK, that's plenty of Potter to keep me quiet.

>56 Bar Mitzvah Boy (Play for Today)
>57 Edna, The Inebriate Woman (Play for Today)

Good to see this here.

>58 Live Aid for Africa

No it was dreadful! Lots of musician who'd lost the plot by the mid-Eighties wheeling out any old toss to make themselves look good. The 1995 repeat was hideous and that was only a third of it. Still, it saved lives I s'pose. (grumpy fucker I know)

>63 Z Cars

Well that'll teach the BBC for wiping 300 of the sods.

>73 Nineteen Eighty-Four

Inevitable but there is plenty more Kneale/Cartier that could have been included.

>75 Quatermass and the Pit

See.

>76 Between The Lines

Ah, but series three was terrible. Good while it lasted.

>78 Talking to a Stranger (Theatre 625)

Yay!

>82 Tutti Frutti

Well repeat the sod!

>83 The Knowledge

That's two Jack Rosenthal plays. Oy vey.

>89 A Very Peculiar Practice

Bang on.

>90 Michael Moore's TV Nation
>91 This Life

Fair enough with both of these. I notice there are loads of Tony Garnett productions in this list. Good.

>93 The Nazis - A Warning From History

This is that new show on BBC2, isn't it?

>99 Pride and Prejudice

Don't agree. That show made me more angry than anything in the last ten years.

>100 Made In Britain

Alan Clarke just scrapes in which validates everything.


That list is fair enough. No huge surprises, just a couple of 'wild' inclusions which won't be there when they poll again in ten years time. I imagine they'll be replaced by Big Brother 12 or some such guff.

Major omissions - THE GOODIES, TWIN PEAKS (is this UK only?), THE DAY TODAY, was the PRISONER there? Er, nothing else really.

I'm sure I'll think of a few.

bent halo, you rule. alan partridge compared to 'the day today' and the former wins? disgraceful.

and four potters is a good showing. although i love pfh, and the ending just makes me whimper like a sentimental old fool (something i hope one day to be).

j xxx

"It's like those top 100 album lists a few years back that had Oasis and Radiohead at No.1."

Allegedly, "The Bends" is the 2nd and "OK Computer" the 4th, greatest albums of all time as of last week. Don't know what position "Pablo Honey" got.

Bent, the one I'd object strongly to is "A Very British Coup". I'd also argue that "Tinker Tailor" (and Le Carre in general) would be unmemorable Cold War spy drivel without Guinness putting in more effort than the script deserved.

Agree - GBH beats the crap out of Very British Coup any day. Can't believe the exercrable This Life was in (albeit only at 91). On the whole I think it's a pretty good list - I was amazed about how much good stuff was in there. But The Prisoner (possibly the best series ever made for TV)is a *major* omission.

And The Day Today should have been in, obviously...

And where was Playschool?

Or Blue Peter, Jigsaw, or any other kids show for that matter?

Teletubbies is just a dumbed-down version of The Flumps anyway.

Blue Peter was at 6, wasn't it?

Peter Purves was on the BBC News saying how thrilled he is.

>Allegedly, "The Bends" is the 2nd and "OK Computer" the 4th, greatest albums of all time as of last week. Don't know what position "Pablo Honey" got.

Don't think it even made the top hundred. It's the best Radiohead in my opinion, but then I do like poppy stuff best, which Pablo Honey has in spades.

I really should stop discussing music on a comedy forum. Probably.

I hate Radiohead because they're rubbish.

I'd say there was a case for The Adventure Game to be in there somewhere, too. It is the single most-recalled-from-memory programme that TV Cream receives enquiries about (i.e. "what was that show with the vortex, gronda gronda and the aspidistra"). If that's not longevity, I dunno what is.

Cheerio

Steve

>I hate Radiohead because they're rubbish.
You're very very wrong there Jon.
Call this a best british tv poll - where's the 11 o' clock show?

Seriously though, who actually likes 'Ab Fab' that much - i think it's overrated tosh.

Polls like this are always pointless, and the irony of saying "perhaps this shows dumbing down" is shocking. 100 best british tv shows? (or whatever the fuck they call it) Have they not noticed the British tv shows are still being made?
DON'T BE SO FUCKING STUPID

I agree about Ab Fab being overrated. There's no way it should be that high up the list. But then that's just my opinion.

As both this and the 100 best albums thing the other day show, lists like this are purely subjective and generally useless.

No, I still can't get over Blackadder Goes Fourth Rate is in there.

I mean, even in the trailers Atkinson could be heard asking, desperately, plaintively:

"Is this REALLY funny?"

Christ that series was poor...

But, good to see someone recognising the purity of true trash TV.

I wouldn't have expected Who Wants To Be a Millionaire to get into an "experts" top 30, terrific telly though it is.

It's like finding "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" just below "The Seven Samurai" in the BFI's top 100 films. A refreshingly honest surprise.

Perhaps more interesting is the list of 650 programmes (elsewhere on the web-site that Jason mentioned) from which the top 100 were compiled.

Apparently all those polled had 30 votes to cast, with a minimum of 3 in each category (single drama, comedy, series, etc). Stuff like news coverage of the fall of the Berlin Wall or the student demos in Tianamen Square were excluded.

"Brass Eye" and "The Day Today" (and "The Young Ones" for that matter) were included in the comedy section, but clearly didn't pick up enough votes.

From the bfi website:

>The bfi TV 100 was chosen by members of the TV industry throughout the UK. Each member was given a big list of 650 titles in 6 genres to vote for, and spaces to write in their own choices of titles not already listed.

...in other words another *expert* poll.

Precisely the same process for the film list in 1998. I think it's fair enough really, but to what end? I've since found out is the 40th anniversary of TV centre next week. Can that really be the reason?

As for PFH, Jason, the final scene is utterly wonderful ("I wouldn't letya go without a happy ending, now would I?") but tries to shake off the amazingly contrived execution/trial. The evidence was flimsy and Potter had clearly panicked. I can love it all blindly, but if we're talking 'masterpiece' then it is open to debate. 'Singing Detective' is vastly better.

I shall look at the 650 entries now. I love a good list, particularly if 'Callan' and 'Survivors' get a mention.

And it is a fucking crime that 'The Prisoner' isn't there. My number two. Have these people not seen 'Once Upon A Time'?!

Also, Jason - you don't happen to have the 1990 repeat of PFH? I have a pretty good copy but episode one has endless picture rolls. Please say yes.

Personally, I would have put The Prisoner right at the top. But there you go.

If anyone can do me a copy of "PFH", I'll happily send them Potters "Where the Buffalo Roam" (1966 starring Hywel Bennett), "The War Game", "Barmitzvah Boy" and "Kisses at Fifty"

Yes, The Prisoner is certainly up there, completely agree. And whoever said GBH (was it you, Jason?). Fawlty is a lazy choice for number one, much as I love it, and The Royle Family (good as it is for a recent sitcom) smacks of "You see? We still make great telly, even now!". The Day Today is a glaring omission, as is the (perhaps) more contentious Absolutely. Other personal faves that didn't stand a chance: Fist Of Fun, The Tube, Press Gang, Vision On, Not Only But Also, Chris Needham's Video Diary...yeah, alright, enough.

btw Bent - agree Cracker went off the boil, but McGovern carried on writing it into series 3 (the middle story of series 2 was written by Ted Whitehead, but otherwise he wrote everything up to "Brotherly Love", the story that ends with Beck's confession and suicide).

The Tube was on the list, wasn't it? Hold on...

Yeah. Number 86. Should be much higher IMHO. Certainly higher than Millionaire, anyway. Was worth a mention on the hundred just for Jools' reference to fuckers, if you ask me...

Boh - my cynical eye just wasn't quite sharp enough. Admittedly, did send it at about 3 in the morning, so I was bleary-eyed.

>If anyone can do me a copy of "PFH", I'll happily send them Potters "Where the Buffalo Roam" (1966 starring Hywel Bennett), "The War Game", "Barmitzvah Boy" and "Kisses at Fifty"

Yes, you can reach me at [email protected]
In fact, anyone who wants to can write there...

I'll post you in a second Simon, but would dispute the claims for The Tube. Most of it *was* rubbish but at the time there was nothing better. And I speak from a pile of videos of the show.

'Press Gang' should have been there too.