>What's the general consensus on this stubbly rotund Cockney man? I think it's definitely a case of "better on the radio". Has anything he's ever appeared in on telly been any cop?
>

I must admit I liked 'Bygones', from a few years back & 'TV heroes', but he's still a twat !!!

>What's the general consensus on this stubbly rotund Cockney man? I think it's definitely a case of "better on the radio". Has anything he's ever appeared in on telly been any cop?
>
Would largely agree. His Radio 5 and GLR shows were genius, as were his Room 101 appearances on R5. He did do a series of 10 minute TV shorts called TV Heroes which was pretty good, especially one on 'Crossroads'. Thing is, he really understands and loves popular culture - that's why his contributions on the I Love the 1970s shows have been so much better than the rest.

Just as John Cleese one described David Frost as having no "internal taste-meter" when it came to choosing TV shows (sometimes brilliant - interviewing Nixon, sometimes abysmal - all that paranormal bollocks), the same, I think, applies to Danny B. Flashes of occasional brilliance followed by periods of.......well, "Pets Win Prizes".

"Danny Baker After All", the ultra-late night one that no-one ever saw from 1993, was based closely on the Radio 1 show and displayed occasional flashes of outright genius, as I'm sure that tim_e will confirm.

If he can't I will. It showed such promise - but then, oh dear, TFI. Baker did, however, do one of the (only) funniest things on TFI - a big musical number with two showgirls and Baker in white tie and tails which he mimed and danced to in full. The big fool! But I love him.

FOR: TV Heroes
AGAINST: Pets Win Prizes

His Radio 1 shows (which were probably identical to the stuff he was doing previously on... what was it, GLR?) were superb. It's hard now to explain exactly what made them good... but they were.

Everything that made people rave about Chris Evans before he blossomed into the cunt we know today, he got from Danny Baker. Sadly everything that's made him the cunt we know today, he also got from Danny Baker. I don't understand...

I still have the final Radio 1 show on tape, which was full of bile about men in suits. Generally he has no self-edit on TV or radio, which ruins everything. But, yes, he has had his moments.

'The Danny Baker Show' should be added to the list of crap.

INDISPUTABLE FACT: His journalism is and always has been fantastic.

If anyone remembers the phone-in stunts craze on the radio 1 show... I was the guy who left a Robson and Jerome CD outside his house, and kept watch to see if anyone picked it up.

Speaking of shit records and in light of the Kenny Everett Bottom 30 thread, I would add that Baker wrote a piece for Q in 1991-ish about rubbish records. Easily the most human and considered article on the subject I have read.

Didn't he include "Perverted By Language" by The Fall, and Danny Kelly insisted it was great in a rejoinder to him?

Funnily enough I was writing about 'Perverted By Language' last night and the Baker thread reminded me of his article.

The set up was that a different reader contributed a review for their worst album - one a year. The 'PBL' was fair enough in a kind of "but it's not proper Fall" bollocksy kind of way, but it was the slagging for 'In The Court Of The Crimson King' which irritated me more.

>"Danny Baker After All", the ultra-late night one that no-one ever saw from 1993, was based closely on the Radio 1 show and displayed occasional flashes of outright genius, as I'm sure that tim_e will confirm.

Yeah, After All was the one which had the most stunt stuff in. I vaguely remember something with Vinnie Jones and guns. It was also the most unashamed Letterman rip-off ever seen on British TV, more so than anything Jonathan Ross ever did.

I liked all the BBC chat shows he did, but his best stuff was on the radio. He's head and above everyone else at doing football phone-ins, I reckon his best non-football stuff was probably Morning Edition on the old Radio 5.

What's Alliss Moss up to these days?

Re: PBL

Can we just get this clear, Bent? Was it D.Baker said it was the worst record of 1983? But I'm certain I saw the article, and there was something by Danny Kelly saying it was his favourite album of 1983, despite Riley leaving the group. It stuck in my mind because I'd never heard of the album or knew much of the group at that point.

Somewhere on the net is an interview where MES concedes that everyone seems to dislike it. It's not my favourite by any means, but I think it's a really weird album, just in that it is like nothing else done by them or anyone.

What did you write about it? It strikes me that a lot of the early (80-84) Fall stuff was straining for effects that just weren't possible at the time, aiming for a sound more like recent electronic music, which they got right in their 90s albums. Anyhow.

The Vinnie Jones gun thing: it involved Baker, Jones, Chris Difford from Squeeze and a childrens' entertainer that they found in a local newspaper small ad loading Simply Red CDs into a clay pigeon launcher, and shooting them.

Class TV

>Re: PBL

Must we get into a music discussion? Hell, it's the Fall. So, like a rat up a drainpipe...

>Can we just get this clear, Bent? Was it D.Baker said it was the worst record of 1983? But I'm certain I saw the article, and there was something by Danny Kelly saying it was his favourite album of 1983, despite Riley leaving the group. It stuck in my mind because I'd never heard of the album or knew much of the group at that point.

I have never heard of that article. Kelly had nothing to do with the one I mentioned, other than being Editor. It was a piece in Q63ish with John Lydon on the cover. Maybe that helps.

>Somewhere on the net is an interview where MES concedes that everyone seems to dislike it. It's not my favourite by any means, but I think it's a really weird album, just in that it is like nothing else done by them or anyone.

MES is very proud of everything he did. When I told him that I played WMC-BLOB*59 to a non-fan as an example of The Fall sound, he pissed himself. PBL is in my Top 5, if there is such a thing.

>What did you write about it? It strikes me that a lot of the early (80-84) Fall stuff was straining for effects that just weren't possible at the time,

You could say the same of Joy Division or Magazine. If you wanted to.

I wrote about the album's position as a graduation between early Riley Fall and the big Beggars Banquet stab at success. It is an important record because it shows Brix in a position at which MES could still control the sound without her influence. Not that she was a bad influence but PBL is part of this progression.

>...aiming for a sound more like recent electronic music, which they got right in their 90s albums. Anyhow.

Harumph. Don't agree. 'Grotesque' and 'PBL' were my first two Fall records and I naturally gravitate to them (or levitate if you like). There is nothing more exciting than seeing them perform 'Smile' on THE TUBE or the commonly circulated Leeds Uni 1980 video that shows Riley pressing his palm across the keyboard rather than attempting to play it.

The early period was great for many reasons (and I can persevere with this discussion if you wish.) Principally MES would move a member from one instrument to another once they became a proficient player. This gave them an edge which MES has slowly evicted from the group. The Fall always teeter on the brink of being completely shit but escape it every time.

New LP is ready btw. Peel premieres it either tomorrow or Tuesday. I am reliably told that it is heavily over produced, which is worrying.


Sorry if this post is dithery. It's late.

Yes, he did Pets Win Prizes, yes he did those Daz ads, yes he even did....The Bottom Line (consumer show for Thames with Janice Long and Emma Freud, late 80s).

But....

His stuff for GLR and (especially) Radio 5 was largely spectacular (even his stuff for Virgin was the best thing by a mile on a God-awful radio station), his Room 101 selections for both radio and TV were hysterical, and best of all, perhaps...

He is one of the very few genuinely hilarious music journalists that Britain has ever produced (ok, Quantick, Linehan, on-form Hibbert, maybe Maconie at one point, perhaps). If you can ever track down any of his singles reviews columns from the NME (1978-82ish), it will make you ever more bewildered about his descent into TFI. He also conducted an interview with Michael Jackson in 1981 in which they talked of Benny Hill and The Sex Pistols (it's in a music press anthology book which I don't own, and can't remember the name of, but it's a fantastic piece). And Bent's so right, that Q piece on the two record collections (one we show to our friends, the other we keep very very hidden) is masterly.

Aliss Moss is now a continuity announcer on (mainly) BBC1, having previously done bits for Radio 4 (I have her dulcet tones introducing a few of my taped copies of People Like Us). But she was still part of the Baker posse for a while, right through to when he went back to post-Radio 1 GLR (1996-97). On Virgin, Laurie Pike took over for the most part.

"Hee-hee! Ho-ho! The creative powerhouse that is John Noakes..."

Aliss returned to Virgin for Baker's last show in July.

Thinking back, After All was the most blatant Letterman clone, even down to the set and the 'Top Tens' but Baker would be the first to admit it, unlike most of the other steals of big Dave's format around the same time.

'The Danny Baker Show' was an attempt to move away from the Letterman desk, house band etc and was a disaster. Though I did go to the recording of the pilot and was very impressed by Mr Baker. A sad loss to TV.

Both Bob Mills (the poor man's Danny Baker) and Paul Ross (the poor man's Bob Mills) seem to crop up regularly on the box while Dan fulfilled the prediction of a Viz cartoon from the early nineties 'Danny Wanker loses all his jobs'.

Ah well.

>He is one of the very few genuinely hilarious music journalists that Britain has ever produced (ok, Quantick, Linehan, on-form Hibbert, maybe Maconie at one point, perhaps). If you can ever track down any of his singles reviews columns from the NME (1978-82ish), it will make you ever more bewildered about his descent into TFI.

Totally agree. I too have loads of yellowing music papers from that period, plus the recent repress of the complete 'Sniffin' Glue'. He really was as good as people claim. Still is in fact, but he tends to ruin things for himself.

Agree also with the list of great music journos. I would stand up for Swells and Keith Cameron from the current NME writers. Usual Swells criticisms miss the point, I think. He is Quantick's equal, albeit with a different approach.

Remember when Hibbert turned into a Tory hack for The Daily Mail (94-97)?

Swells is good just for winding up whining indie-fans who miss the point of his writing. Although some of his attempts of 'youth re-capturing' are a little strange, whenever he does the 'banging on' column or the letters, your always garranteed a laugh.

Exactly, and that's really all it comes down. The 'Fear & Loathing' article a couple of years ago betrayed his obsessions. He is playing around with journalism just as Hunter Thompson did (people miss that as well). It is the question of believing what you're told by a journalist - an issue he plays with time and time again. And still the whiney indie sods don't get it.

Good poet too. There was this theory bandied around recently that he might be gay. Don't see it myself. I dunno, just cos he's bald...

I knew someone who was involved in running a kind of alternative club/venue in Bradford, and they once hired Swells to do a poetry reading. His performance consisted of (1) sarcastically praising the 'central commitee' who ran the venue, and then (2) wanking in front of the audience. He might have read some poetry as well, but I don't remember if that was part of the anecdote.

See his novel "Tits out teen teror totty!", which is basically one of his articles extended over 200 pages. I could only manage one of them.

Sorry, but just to go back to The Fall... it was Danny Baker who got them their first record deal with Step Forward in 1978, or whenever.

I have the original Sounds news story on Swells' stage wank from 1984. Interesting to read about him in a pre-NME light. See also the John Cooper Clarke film 'Ten Years In An Open Neck Shirt'.

Danny Baker claims also to have *invented* The Fall. No matter how much MES slags him he sticks by the band. I don't mind him as a result, seeing as though he can actually handle criticism.

Also, Jon - that keyboards analogy you gave. I was watching a 1981 live vid of New Order and they performed 'Everything's Gone Green' and a draft of 'Temptation'. Could you clarify what you meant by The Fall attempting synth parts which were beyond early-80's means. I'm just confused now.

I'm listening to 'Levitate' at work now...

I didn't mean synth parts, so much as the overall sound. Tracks from "Hex" and "PBL" attempt tricks with guitar distortion and multi-layered vocals which were a bit beyond the equipment they were using, and they seem to have achieved them better using electronics on their 90s albums. But I don't have time to go into it right now. All I can say is, listen to "Neighbourhood of infinity" or "Deer Park" and then "The chiselers" or "Hurricane Edward" or pretty much any track off "Levitate" and you might see what I mean.

They were the first to do a drun'n'bass ballad - "in your blue green and grey heart/bedecked in lace."

Wahey! I was just listening to that - "Ten Houses Of Eve".

It's been said before, but if a bunch of 20-year-olds had made any of last few Fall albums, they'd have been on the cover of everything.

I maintain that MES ruins it for himself. Not in terms of sacking band members (which the press overplay and remark on sooner than the music) but self=destructive acts as soon as they get a bit of attention.

When he got the Godlike genius award (have you read about the Whiley edits?) they followed it with a couple of London shows which were not inviting for the scores of curious newcomers. Result?'Marshall Suite' flops despite being utterly fantastic. London radio belatedly saves 'F'oldin' Money' but it makes little difference.

What has also happened is the increase in compilations, all from Trojan subsiduaries. MES never cleared these and they almost all result from a clause in the 'Light User' contract for Jet. Which was absolved a year later but Trojan could still release any amount of comps, particularly around the release of a new Fall studio LP. It's happening again, with 'I Am Pure As An Oranj', 'Psykick Dancehall' available and 'Hex Induction Tour'(What a dreadful title!) looming large.

I take your point about early 80s arrangements.

I trust you're a FallNetter or TBLY reader, Jon?

[I am listening to 'Doc Shanley' whilst writing this..]

I've worked my way through the Lyrics Parade, and read some interviews, but I don't bother with sites much. Yes, I had wondered about the rubbishy compilations. I saw them live at LA2 earlier this year and it was a disgrace, almost as bad as Reading'99, which I left early, wishing they'd split up for good.

Have all the years of speed abuse wrecked MES mentally, or is he having a breakdown, or what?

The first thing he said to me was "have you got any whizz?" He still has a drugs problem. And no original teeth.

Going now. Back tonight at some point.

'Masquerade' fades....

Not forgetting to add that their Leeds Duchess gig in March was the best I have ever seen them. Biting my nails over the Dick Dale gig in a couple of weeks. Are you going?

Yeah! Do you want to meet up for it?

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